My house doesn't have lights in the bedrooms, only a switched wall outlet. It's a ranch-style house, less than 30 years old.
I'd like to put lights in the bedrooms, but fishing wires from the basement or attic to existing outlet and switch boxes is darn near impossible. I would prefer not to cut additional holes in the drywall during this process (other than the one required for the electrical box on the ceiling).
I have thought of a couple ideas, such as:
using magnets to get two fish wires to meet up inside the wall.
somehow pry the existing electrical box off the 2x4, and install the plastic slide-in "old work" boxes. This will allow me to stick my hand in the wall and grab the fish tape or wire.
I know it's a long shot, but has anyone developed a good method for doing this?
It's not running the fish tape inside the stud or joist bay that's the problem (unless there's blocking), but making the transition from ceiling to wall requires you to drill through the top plate(s). There's no other way to do it.
I've done a good bit of this and i've tried pretty much everything.. the biggest issue with needing to make new holes is going to be how the house is built. Example, my house is built "balloon style" this means that on the outside walls, tehrea re not cross braces between the studs. So, i've been able to get from the attic down fairily easily. the first florr is a little more difficult, but once i"m in the wall i can go straight up and down. If you have cross-braces, you'll have no luck without the holes - my ceiling was more difficult on the 1st floor as it seemed that there was never a straight line and I was always going accross teh 2nd floor joists, causing me nightmares. I got lucky on a few as I was replacing SOME wiring, but didn't always have luck. I don't thinkg magnets will work, and what i've found in the end is that the time to repair the walls, is less than monkeying aournd with tapes, etc in some of the more difficult cases. Just my two cents.
Because fish tape is so springy, I found it to be a total pain in the ass to use. The curve of the tape always seemed to get stuck halfway to wherever it was going. What worked best was using appropriate lengths of electrical wire, either the 3-conductor NM, or individual strands taken from same. Both will retain whatever shape you give them before feeding through holes.
It's a problem because I have to fish a wire through a hole drilled in the top plate, through the wall, into the existing switch box....without making any extra holes in the drywall.
It can be a real PITA. The one trick I have found to be helpful is to pull off the baseboard molding, cut a hole in the drywall, and then drill a pilot hole down through the floor. Then drill a larger hole up from the basement. Then cut out for your electrical box. Assuming there are no stops in the wall cavity, it is then a simple matter to run the wire. Replacing the molding covers the hole.
The one time I ran from the attic was much more difficult.\\
If you have an unused wire port in your outlet box, then this might work. You need two fish lines, they have a hook on the end. Pull about 3 feet out of the wire holder on each. Insert one through the outlet hole pointing up, and the other in from the hole in the top plate. Once both wires are inserted, twist slowly and the two ends will meet, and then pull in one direction. The fish wire should come out the other end. Maybe you might get lucky.
That sounds ok but I'd use a magnet on a string lowered from above and a magnet on a wire from below. Measure and mark string so you know it's not gone below the switch box. Aim to have the magnet say 6" above it.
I would suggest you remove the existing switch box (i.e. Your option #2 above). This will provide you access to the wall cavity.
Cut in the new ceiling box. This will allow you access to the ceiling space.
Since ceiling boxes are 4 inch boxes, you will have more than sufficient space to get your hand in the ceiling space.
Use your fish wire to fish UP from the switch box. Use another fish wire, a coat hanger or a piece of solid wire to 'catch' the fish wire and pull it out the ceiling box opening. Attach your new wired to the fish tape and pull. Slowly and carefully. It is a real pain to yank the wire off the end of the fish after all the work to get the fish there the first time.
Magnets of any size you are likely to have access to are not going to anywhere near powerful enough to do what you want within the space limitations you have.
If you have to drill holes in studs, sil plates, joists or whatever get yourself an auger bit on a flexible shaft (I have seen them up to six feet long).
This type of work is done all the time and at most should only require minor patching of drywall at the switch box and/or ceiling outlet. However, as pointed out by other posters, a little drywall patching is sometimes way more cost/time effective than spending half a day getting one wire to the new location.
snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com wrote in news:1142009717.751477.256390 @v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:
Hopefully you have no blocking between the studs. Probably don't.
You are trying to fish through an inside wall with no insulation hopefully?
I've taken a 4ft level and put it above the center of the box inside to the ceiling. Where the ceiling meets the wall directly above (or a couple of inches away make like a 1/16 hole in the ceiling. Push a coat hanger through so you can see it from the attic.
Go up in the attic and drill hole through plates. Drop string down with screw/washer/something. Unless if gets misdirected by hitting wires or something it has to be lined up with the box when it comes down.
I usually just hook it with something when I see the string but that magnet idea I might try next time.
Just put a dab of painters caulk in the 1/16" hole. No one will even see it. If it's popcorn/textured ceiling, you won't even find it.
I just put in another switch above that one for a ceiling light. That way I still have the switch for the outlet, and that's good.
It was no trouble learning -- it took no effort; the learning is automatic -- that the ceiling light switch is a little higher in those two rooms than in the kitchen, basement, and halls.
Doesn't anyone bend the fish tape and also twist the reel to guide the tip? The set in the tape can be an advantage if you use it instead of fighting it.
It should be pointed out that fishing walls is NOT always successful. Occasionally, one must give up and repair the wall.
Also, fishing an INSULATED wall is usually very damaging to the insulation, whether the fish was successful or not.
I have done SHORT fishes of insulated walls. The customer got the phone jack where they wanted it and, since I am very careful, they never see the wads of fiberglass insulation that I extracted in the process.
I'm nor sure if you're mentioning the NM 3-wire from your earlier post or referring to another tool. Which is it?
I've been frustrated by blocking, blockage, and bizarre construction, but I've never found the fish tape itself to be an insurmountable obstacle. I know a fair bit about how framing techniques changed over the years and where to expect problems. I'm usually not walking into a house cold and trying to run a line, so that's an advantage, too. I've never really felt that the fish tape was useless.
I pull out a section of the tape and bend it roughly straight to eliminate the curve it picked up in the reel. Then I bend the tip to skip over the lath or the "field" of obstructions, or to keep it pressing up against a smooth surface. If I know that the tape has to curve in a general direction, I'll give the tape a tweak every so often as I insert it into the hole.
As a last resort, and since I'm looking at the clock most of the time, I'll call it quits If I find that I'm spending more time than it's worth just to keep from cutting a small hole. Usually it's not the existence of the hole, but where and how big it is that can be the problem. Behind pictures, couches or inside a closet are natural places to chop a hole.
I'd like to try one of the fiberglass fish "tapes", the round ones, to see how much easier they are to use. I ran across a tape that can be controlled to curve in the direction you want - that'd be a fun to play with. I'd also love to have a video camera on the end of a tape. That's the real problem - there are so many tools that I'd like to own, and so little time and money!
I'm referring to NM wire. Depending on what you're up against, you can either use the entire bundle, or just a single wire that you've removed from the bundle. In terms of size, a single strand of 14 is no larger than fish tape. It's easier to bend into a functional shape, too. The only reason to own a fish tape is to feel all official and handy & shit.
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