Fastening 1/4" underlayment

[Me]

I need to put down some 1/4" underlayment in a small hallway before I tile it. The present floor is too rough to tile the way it is. It's only 2 sheets, so not a big deal. I know the installers use staples, but I dont have the equipment, and just want to nail it. My question is what kind of nail to use, and how close to put the nails. Or, should I use some sort of adhesive along with nails?

I dont want to turn this into a complicated job, and renting the stapler would require me driving 30 some miles, since I am in a rural area. I should note the present floor is only one layer of 3/4" particle board. This place was built to save money. The hall had carpeting, and was tacked down. Whoever removed the carpeting drove all the tacks into the floor instead of pulling them. When I moved in, there were two pieces of vinyl and they did not even match. Yecccchhh...

I guess the particle board needs a good gripping nail, because thats all there is.

[Edwin Pawlowski]

[George E. Cawthon]

Nothing under the particle board? Kind of skimpy. I would worry about the strength and tearing the chipboard to pieces if you use ring shank nails. I'd use screws in predrilled holes (don't remember the spacing? 6" on the edges and 1' spacing elsewhere?). Set the heads down just below the surface and cover it with a leveler made for that purpose. If the surface isn't smooth, it will telegraph through the vinyl. Whether you use nails or screws you need a skim coat of leveler.

[willshak]

On 2/16/2005 9:49 PM US(ET), Me took fingers to keys, and typed the following:

I had a tile floor installed over 1/4" plywood in my kitchen. The plywood was nailed to the underlayment with 1-1/4" ridged shank nails. I recently ripped up the tile, and the 1/4" plywood that it was cemented to, and had a hell of a job getting up the 1/4" plywood. Had to use a circular saw with a diamond blade to cut in the grout between the tiles so as to cut it up in managable pieces. I still had to use wrecking bars to pry the pieces up.

[Colbyt]

Nails were used for years before power tools became the norm.

You said tile. If you are doing ceramic your underlayment should be 1/4" hardiebacker. This you can install with roofing nails that are long enough to penetrate the subfloor by 1/8". The nailing pattern is marked on the hardiebacker. Pick up a copy of the instructions when you buy. Just be sure to use the edge spacing around the cut edges.

If you are doing vinyl tile your luan is okay (not the recommended product, but okay). You can buy underlayment nails anywhere that has a good selection of nails. They look like ring shank drywall nails with a much smaller head. I'm not positive but I think the correct pattern is 6 x 6 ( a nail every 6" in all directions). It might be 4" at the seams. At any rate my arm remembers it is one heck of a lot of nails.

Happy pounding

Colbyt

[Me]

Thanks to everyone for the help. That download PDF file said 6" nail spacing and 3 at the seams. That sounds about right from seeing jobs done, but they used the staples. I know what you are saying about power tools. For a job like this, I would like a power stapler, but it's not worth the cost and hassle to get all the stuff. I can and will nail. As for these power nailers that shoot a 16D nail to join

2x4's, I refuse to use that sort of thing. I have heard of far too many people getting injured with those things. Just give me a hammer and I can build almost as fast, and a lot safer. I'm an old fart, and I am not afraid to use a few muscles.

You said 1/8" into the subfloor. Are you sure about that? That sounds like much too little penetration. I'd figure a 1" nail. That will just make it thru a 1/4" sheet and my 3/4" floor.

I am using some cheap vinyl tile, possibly even that peel and stick crap (except I apply some multi-purpose adhesive first). This is going to be a rental, so I want to keep costs down.

This should get a laugh. I called the local rural lumberyard today and asked what they had for underlayment. They wanted to sell me 1/4" birch plywood @ $25 a sheet. They must be out of their minds..... I asked if they had anything cheaper, that they said they have a mahogany plywood for $18. I asked about hardboard, and they said they only had 2 sheets and did not know the price, but could call me back. I hung up. I will go to the city and visit HD or Menards.

I assume the hardiebacker is the same as hardboard (masonite), right? I would think that should work. I believe I paid about $9 a sheet for some of that about a year ago, (Menards) when I put a sheet on my garage wall to hang garden tools.

Good Day !!!

[Colbyt]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant was, if using roofing nails with hardiebacker use a nail that is long enough to go all the way through the sub-floor and stick out the bottom by 1/8".

Since you are doing vinyl and most likely using luan just buy your standard underlayment nail. I don't recall if they are 1 1/4" or 1 1/2". Doesn't matter. The ring shank will do the job. I like to never removed the underlayment that I had applied in this manner when I was forced to because of a leaky Fridge the tenant allowed to drip on the floor.

Colbyt

[Me]

Thanks to everyone for the help. That download PDF file said 6" nail spacing and 3 at the seams. That sounds about right from seeing jobs done, but they used the staples. I know what you are saying about power tools. For a job like this, I would like a power stapler, but it's not worth the cost and hassle to get all the stuff. I can and will nail. As for these power nailers that shoot a 16D nail to join

2x4's, I refuse to use that sort of thing. I have heard of far too many people getting injured with those things. Just give me a hammer and I can build almost as fast, and a lot safer. I'm an old fart, and I am not afraid to use a few muscles.

You said 1/8" into the subfloor. Are you sure about that? That sounds like much too little penetration. I'd figure a 1" nail. That will just make it thru a 1/4" sheet and my 3/4" floor.

I am using some cheap vinyl tile, possibly even that peel and stick crap (except I apply some multi-purpose adhesive first). This is going to be a rental, so I want to keep costs down.

This should get a laugh. I called the local rural lumberyard today and asked what they had for underlayment. They wanted to sell me 1/4" birch plywood @ $25 a sheet. They must be out of their minds..... I asked if they had anything cheaper, that they said they have a mahogany plywood for $18. I asked about hardboard, and they said they only had 2 sheets and did not know the price, but could call me back. I hung up. I will go to the city and visit HD or Menards.

I assume the hardiebacker is the same as hardboard (masonite), right? I would think that should work. I believe I paid about $9 a sheet for some of that about a year ago, (Menards) when I put a sheet on my garage wall to hang garden tools.

Good Day !!!