Electricial lights in vinyl siding.

[Terry]

I am having vinyl trim put around my eaves. There are two existing floodlights. I noticed when the installers removed the existing lights from the box and left the wires connected and the light hanging. They cut about an 1.5 in hole in the siding and that was it. The light was then screwed in to the vinyl with one Sheetrock screw.

I told them that an extension ring was needed to extend the existing box thru the vinyl and mount the fixture on that. They said that they never do houses like that. Most of houses they do, he says, don't even have a box. The electricians just run a wire out through a hole.

I can't believe that someone that installs this stuff daily can get by with mounting light fixtures with sheet rock screws.

[The Streets]

I agree that it's not right -- but I see it all the time.

[N8N]

ayup. my house has a light fixture mounted with NAILS. And not centered over the door, either.

BTW, is a 4" hole saw what I want to cut a round old work box into the wall?

nate

[DT]

There are two proper ways to do it. One is to use a vinyl mounting box. This has a nice trim ring for the siding to snap into. Unfortunately it needs to go on before the siding. Here is a url for one brand:

The second method is to use a surface mount box. These go over the siding and fit tightly to the profile, and the fixture mounts to it. Here are some:

All of these are readily available. Home Depot carries the surface mounts for standard siding, if you are using Dutch lap you will probably need to get them at a lumber company or building supply.

[RBM]

Unfortunately, this seems like the standard method for siding installers. It is of course illegal, and in some instances dangerous. Siding boxes don't always align with the existing box to make them work, but like you said, an extension collar should be installed on the box to bring it flush, and the fixture should be mounted to the box

[John Grabowski]

They are vinyl siding installers. You can't expect them to be qualified electricians. I can't tell you how many electric services I have seen hanging halfway off of the house because they did not reinstall the straps properly. Call a qualified electrician to make things right.

[Terry]

messagenews: [e-mail]...

I am guessing that more than half of all houses have at least one flood light. That means that it is something they do regularly. I don't expect vinyl siding installers to install or do any wiring except the wiring they undid to install their siding. If you have to take a light fixture down to do your job, you should be expected to put it back properly. If this beyond the scope of your installers ability then you should bring it to the attention of the owner before doing the job.

[volts500]

No, 4" is just a hair too small. 4 1/8" does the trick.

[John Grabowski]

messagenews: [e-mail]...

Unfortunately this is not a perfect world. If this contractor tells his customers that he cannot handle the electrical fixtures and that the customer will need to call an electrician, he will probably not get the job. The customer will get a siding contractor who says that he can handle everything whether he can or not because it will be cheaper. Having a qualified person on staff to do electrical work would cost the siding contractor more money. Having to call in an outside electrical contractor to reinstall the fixtures properly would slow down the siding installation. Siding contractors have been doing this kind of electrical butchering for years. They teach their crews how to do it and when those guys go into business for themselves they teach their crews the same unsafe and unsightly techniques. I think that the only way to correct this is legislatively. Where laws are passed requiring that the siding contractor enlist the services of an electrical contractor or at least have a qualified person on staff. Maybe electrical and siding permits and inspections should be required for a siding installation. The downside to this is that the consumer will ultimately pay more for a siding installation.

[Terry]

Taking down a fixture and putting it back up should not require an electrician. We are not talking about anything takes any understanding of electricity.

They should be required to reinstall it properly, but having an electrician is not necessary.

[RBM]

It does however require an understanding of wiring methods, materials, and codes, which obviously siding contractors don't have and or don't exercise.

[John Grabowski]

installation.

I am in New Jersey and anyone who does electrical work for someone else must be licensed by the state. Refitting electrical boxes and rehanging light fixtures is electrical work. Rehanging a service and meter socket onto a house is not something I would want my siding contractor to handle even if he said he could, yet it is done all of the time here. This past year New Jersey began requiring that all contractors that do any kind of home improvement be licensed. Maybe that will help the situation.

What are you going to do when water gets into the electrical connections made by the siding guys and over time arcs, heats up, and slowly melts or charrs the siding? Will you be calling your siding guy back to fix it? Or will you call an electrician to fix the wiring and call the siding guy to fix the siding? I am a licensed electrical contractor, but I have no clue as to how to install vinyl siding.

[ahole]

[RBM]

Make no mistake, there are NO electricians on the unemployment line in New Jersey. There are however piles of coachlights and the like, dangling off of vinyl siding because they were not reinstalled properly. The one bitchin here is not the electrician, it's the homeowner. The electrician is merely suggesting who to hire if you want the job done right

[ahole]

"RBM" and proceeded to write in message news:sK_ih.2917$ [e-mail]...

Actually you are wrong

read on smart ass.............................

According to preliminary estimates from the New Jersey Department of Labor and Workforce Development's

TRENTON, December 19, 2006 - New Jersey's economy gained private-sector jobs in November while the unemployment rate matched that of the nation for the second consecutive month. Both rates edged upward by 0.1 percentage point to 4.5 percent.

The construction supersector declined by 400 to 171,000 due to cutbacks by building construction and specialty trade contractors. The information supersector also was down by 400 to an employment level of 93,800.

as to the OP STOP hiring the lowest bidder if you want quality work!

*I still hate stupid people*

[Terry]

On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 18:39:51 -0500, "John Grabowski"

Who is talking about changing a service?

The point I am making is that vinyl siding people ARE taking down light fixtures to put up their siding everyday.

I would bet that close to 100% of the time the fixtures are reinstalled incorrectly. How can the building codes permit this? I can't be the first one to notice this.

I insisted that the siding guys put extension rings on my fixtures.

Not only does this make them electrically secure, it makes them more mechanically secure too. A strong wind would have taken down the fixtures mounted with a single sheet rock screw.

A strong wind might take down the siding too, but I have a lifetime warranty if it does.

[RBM]

The siding guys will probably give you a lifetime warranty on their fixture mounts as well. I'm sure they have a barrel of sheet rock screws. The point we're making is that although it's not rocket science, siding guys don't do it correctly, anyway. John Grabowski mentioned licensing those contractors, which gives the towns some leverage on them, but I can tell you where I am in NY, they do require licenses, and it doesn't help. It's a totally bullshit license with no testing whatever, and if they lost it they could get another under someone else's name

[Terry]

There just doesn't seem to be much accountability. It is really sad that they can get by with potentially dangerous practices daily.

messagenews: [e-mail]...

[RBM]

I hear you and I agree. In my opinion, first there was pond slime, then siding contractors

[John Grabowski]

A homeowner really needs to do his or her homework before selecting contractors for any job. I am fortunate in that I meet a lot of different trades people on jobs all of the time and I get to see a sample of their craftsmanhip (Or lack of). Homeowners need to make informed decisions about who does what to their home and they should not let their wallet be the only deciding factor.

Last spring I worked on a job that was an office building converted from an old house. The general contractor brought his nephew the plumber on the job to rework the kitchen. I knew just from how he parked his truck blocking every other truck on the job site that he was a shoemaker. In the few hours that he worked he hacked up several studs with a Sawzall on an outside load bearing wall because it was easier and ran pex tubing in the basement without any strapping or supports. When I see work that I am impressed with I usually ask for that person's business card. Needless to say I did not ask for this guy's.

do

messagenews: [e-mail]...