I am having vinyl trim put around my eaves. There are two existing
floodlights. I noticed when the installers removed the existing lights
from the box and left the wires connected and the light hanging. They
cut about an 1.5 in hole in the siding and that was it. The light was
then screwed in to the vinyl with one Sheetrock screw.
I told them that an extension ring was needed to extend the existing
box thru the vinyl and mount the fixture on that. They said that they
never do houses like that. Most of houses they do, he says, don't even
have a box. The electricians just run a wire out through a hole.
I can't believe that someone that installs this stuff daily can get by
with mounting light fixtures with sheet rock screws.
There are two proper ways to do it. One is to use a vinyl mounting box. This
has a nice trim ring for the siding to snap into. Unfortunately it needs to go
on before the siding. Here is a url for one brand:
The second method is to use a surface mount box. These go over the siding
and fit tightly to the profile, and the fixture mounts to it. Here are some:
All of these are readily available. Home Depot carries the surface mounts for
standard siding, if you are using Dutch lap you will probably need to get them
at a lumber company or building supply.
Unfortunately, this seems like the standard method for siding installers. It
is of course illegal, and in some instances dangerous. Siding boxes don't
always align with the existing box to make them work, but like you said, an
extension collar should be installed on the box to bring it flush, and the
fixture should be mounted to the box
They are vinyl siding installers. You can't expect them to be qualified
electricians. I can't tell you how many electric services I have seen
hanging halfway off of the house because they did not reinstall the straps
properly. Call a qualified electrician to make things right.
I am guessing that more than half of all houses have at least one flood
light. That means that it is something they do regularly. I don't
expect vinyl siding installers to install or do any wiring except the
wiring they undid to install their siding. If you have to take a light
fixture down to do your job, you should be expected to put it back
properly. If this beyond the scope of your installers ability then you
should bring it to the attention of the owner before doing the job.
Unfortunately this is not a perfect world. If this contractor tells his
customers that he cannot handle the electrical fixtures and that the
customer will need to call an electrician, he will probably not get the job.
The customer will get a siding contractor who says that he can handle
everything whether he can or not because it will be cheaper. Having a
qualified person on staff to do electrical work would cost the siding
contractor more money. Having to call in an outside electrical contractor
to reinstall the fixtures properly would slow down the siding installation.
Siding contractors have been doing this kind of electrical butchering for
years. They teach their crews how to do it and when those guys go into
business for themselves they teach their crews the same unsafe and unsightly
techniques. I think that the only way to correct this is legislatively.
Where laws are passed requiring that the siding contractor enlist the
services of an electrical contractor or at least have a qualified person on
staff. Maybe electrical and siding permits and inspections should be
required for a siding installation. The downside to this is that the
consumer will ultimately pay more for a siding installation.
Taking down a fixture and putting it back up should not require an
electrician. We are not talking about anything takes any understanding
They should be required to reinstall it properly, but having an
electrician is not necessary.
I am in New Jersey and anyone who does electrical work for someone else must
be licensed by the state. Refitting electrical boxes and rehanging light
fixtures is electrical work. Rehanging a service and meter socket onto a
house is not something I would want my siding contractor to handle even if
he said he could, yet it is done all of the time here. This past year New
Jersey began requiring that all contractors that do any kind of home
improvement be licensed. Maybe that will help the situation.
What are you going to do when water gets into the electrical connections
made by the siding guys and over time arcs, heats up, and slowly melts or
charrs the siding? Will you be calling your siding guy back to fix it? Or
will you call an electrician to fix the wiring and call the siding guy to
fix the siding? I am a licensed electrical contractor, but I have no clue
as to how to install vinyl siding.
<john's crap snipped>
<john as he stated the obvious>
>I have no clue
it doesn't take a licensed electrician to install a light.............geez
but it does take 2 electricians to install a bulb
1 to hold the bulb and the other one to spin the ladder.
sorry you are on the unemployment line from all these other guys installing
maybe someone's Xmas lights will go out and call the licensed electrician to
change the bulbs.
chin up lad
Make no mistake, there are NO electricians on the unemployment line in New
Jersey. There are however piles of coachlights and the like, dangling off of
vinyl siding because they were not reinstalled properly. The one bitchin
here is not the electrician, it's the homeowner. The electrician is merely
suggesting who to hire if you want the job done right
"RBM" <said a real dumb ass statement> and proceeded to write in message
Actually you are wrong
read on smart ass.............................
According to preliminary estimates from the New Jersey Department of Labor
TRENTON, December 19, 2006 - New Jersey's economy gained private-sector jobs
November while the unemployment rate matched that of the nation for the
second consecutive month.
Both rates edged upward by 0.1 percentage point to 4.5 percent.
The construction supersector declined by 400 to 171,000 due to cutbacks by
and specialty trade contractors. The information supersector also was down
by 400 to an employment level
as to the OP
STOP hiring the lowest bidder
if you want quality work!
*I still hate stupid people*
On Fri, 22 Dec 2006 18:39:51 -0500, "John Grabowski"
Who is talking about changing a service?
The point I am making is that vinyl siding people ARE taking down
light fixtures to put up their siding everyday.
I would bet that close to 100% of the time the fixtures are
reinstalled incorrectly. How can the building codes permit this? I
can't be the first one to notice this.
I insisted that the siding guys put extension rings on my fixtures.
Not only does this make them electrically secure, it makes them more
mechanically secure too. A strong wind would have taken down the
fixtures mounted with a single sheet rock screw.
A strong wind might take down the siding too, but I have a lifetime
warranty if it does.
The siding guys will probably give you a lifetime warranty on their fixture
mounts as well. I'm sure they have a barrel of sheet rock screws. The point
we're making is that although it's not rocket science, siding guys don't do
it correctly, anyway. John Grabowski mentioned licensing those contractors,
which gives the towns some leverage on them, but I can tell you where I am
in NY, they do require licenses, and it doesn't help. It's a totally
bullshit license with no testing whatever, and if they lost it they could
get another under someone else's name
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