Drywall 9' walls

[DD_BobK]

on jobsites so I have to say bullshit to that little jem (sic)

[aemeijers]

[krw]

You hang T-111 horizontally? THAT is bullshit.

[Tony Hwang]

Hmmm, ???????????????

[Iggy]

replying to Steve Barker, Iggy wrote: THANK YOU WILLSHAK! The first answer got it right, Steve I hope Vertical Installation's what you did. There's NO benefit nor advantage to the Horizontal Installation. It's the dumbest practice that ruins new everything right from the start and provides poor fire protection.

[clare]

How does it provide poor fire protection? Horizontal instalation makes it a whole lot easier to hide the joints too, which is why expert drywallers almost ALWATS install the panels horizontally - and use sheets longer than 8 feet.

[ItsJoanNotJoann]

Yes!! You certainly are!!

[Iggy]

replying to clare, Iggy wrote: Very simply, the seams aren't air-tight and therefore not fire-tight. As proven by the nightly news (see YouTube). Story upon story of this building and that home burned down to the ground in less than 30-minutes...what drywall's rated for and easily capable of retaining a fire for. But, even the ASTM won't correct its decades-old error in The Code...I've tried for almost 15-years. If you haven't seen my posted-today list, Vertical Installation is so good that it's not required to be taped and mudded and is at its full level of fire protection upon installation.

[Iggy]

replying to ItsJoanNotJoann, Iggy wrote: Ha, ha, ha. You are clever.

[clare]

PROPERLY mudded the joint is as fire resistant as the rest of the drywall. What the stories don't tell is in many cases there is no "fire blocking" so when fire gets behind the drywall it's like a blowtotch. No difference between horizontal and vertical.

[Iggy]

replying to clare, Iggy wrote: That's what I initially thought, until I tried it and broke it down. A Vertical's seam is 100% backed and the full panel's entire perimeter edges are as well. However, a Horizontal seam only has a 1-1/2" support every 14-1/2"s. That's only about 10% of a seam that's backed. And, no-one does nor would waste the time to properly put any back-blocking behind the seam, which should be required.

I can kick and hammer a Vertical seam and nothing happens. But, with Horizontal I can just moderately lean against it to deflect it open and completely crack the seam open and loose. I've heard your point of better seam-hiding before and frankly I've only rarely witnessed it. I use just a 10" knife on my seams and then lightly sand with a block or pole sander's plate. No gaps, totally flat and entirely invisible, always.

You might enjoy My List. It's here, at the end/bottom:

[clare]

If the first layer of joint compund is a "setting" compound, with the "drying" compound just used to finish, the joint won't separate when you lean on it. Dutabond 45 or durabobd 90 is made for that application. Use it carefully because it is hellishly hard to sand - it cures like concrete or plaster of paris, rather than drying like "drywall mud". It is also 100% fire resistant - better than the drywall itself. This is what I meant by "properly installed"

If you want full fire rated, install 1 layer vetically with screws, not mudded - then install the second layer horizontal , preferably with adhesive, and mud.

Commonly done on "shared" walls in wood-framed multi-unit residential buildings as a "fire break"

[Iggy]

replying to clare, Iggy wrote: Yep, I somewhat agree. However, that's why I came up with The List and purposely didn't even address your "proper installation". Because, now you're talking about specialty products and much more difficult practices being NEEDED to rather poorly try to match Vertical's performance on every level. And still, you're left with Butt Humps instead of flat walls. I even see "pros" using Butt-Boards to seam between studs (floating hack-work). Absurdly ridiculous!

I realize I may not bring you over from the dark side. But, why fix and patch shoddy work with more steps and specialty products when you can just do it simple, right and quick the first time with basic off-the-shelf products that are available everywhere? Again, a 90% un-backed seam will never compare to 100% backed seam. Even in fire tests, you'll immediately notice the tape and mud goes almost immediately and is non-existent anywhere at the end of the fire test. I think you should give Vertical a try next time around.

[clare]

You saying you can't buy DuraBond at your local home improvement store? And you are saying "drywall compound" isn't a "specialty product"? And you are saying my joints and installation are not as good or as solid as yours? I have NEVER has a drywall seam crack - and I don't have issues trying to get the drywall screws into the 2X4 withoit tearing out the edge of the drywall. I can keep EVERY screw a minimum of 2 inches from the edge except the ones at the end of the panel if my poanel is shorter than my wall. I can buy my drywall the size I need - 8,9, 10, or 12 feet long - so in MOST rooms, on MOST walls there is no vertical joint at all that needs to be butted on a 2X4. Sure makes joints a whole lot simpler when there is just one straight line around the room, and a few corners.

I did it vertically for years ubtill a real master showed me how it SHOULD be done, and how much simpler it is Do the ceiling first, with the long edge at right angles to the natural light or in line with the line of sight. Then install the top sheet on the walls, lenthwise - so you get the tapered edge of tje eall panel meeting the tapered edge of the ceiling panel along the line of site. When mudded, the joint is straight and considtent, and virtually invisible. Then cut the bottom panel to the correct size to fit between the floor and the top panel, leaving about half an inch space at the floor. Jack the panel into place and screw it down. You now have 2 tapered edges together to mud and tape. Absolutely no simpler way to make an excellent drywall job. Using setting compound, the joint is structurally sound and dry in less than an hour - and the thin skim of "drywall mud" required to finish the joint dries quickly - unlike a thick bed of muh that requires 18 hours or more to fully harden, particularly 0n a humid day. You can rock, mud, and sand a room in an 8 hour day this way - and even prime it before you go home for supper. It can be painted before midnight - and it WILL NOT CTACK. Old Johann finished the mud joint with a sponge, and it required almost no sanding at all. When I do it, I still need to sand a bit more, but not nearly as much as when doing it "the old way".

No issues with where the vertical joints meet the ceiling/wall interface either - dead straight joints, all around the room.

[Tekkie®]

[e-mail] posted for all of us...

Clare, I agree with your posts 100% I don't think fire protection is rated on horizontol or vertical installation or mudding.

I also think Iggy is your NYM shifting troll buddy.

[Iggy]

replying to clare, Iggy wrote: Yes, I'm saying a DIYer doing Vertical can and does beat DuraBond and ANY Horizontal "Master" or otherwise with pre-mixed and right out of an un-re-mixed bucket...EVERYTIME. I've done it repeatedly in end-result and actual time spent doing the job. I alone have matched 2-man crews a dozen times and then kicked and punched both of our seams, to show them their crap work.

I agree that your and Johann's completely unnecessary efforts and products can match the "look" of Vertical, but you don't have fire-tight full-depth seams. AND, you too don't fill-in the floor bevel that you CREATED and just happily screw the person doing the baseboards, to finish your work before they can even start theirs. Wonderful.

"Master", really? Flexible seams (once the DuraBond's overcome), Humps (in longer than panel walls), doesn't finish the job (floor bevel), must rely on specialty products (instead of structure) and plays with people's lives by significantly reducing fire protection (the only reason drywall's used)? Oh yeah AND, screw the painter too. Those ceiling corners can't be cut-in with a roller, because they're almost always less than 90-degrees rather than more.

I DON'T piss-off the Carpenter, Electrician and Painter with my work and actually receive compliments for how easy their work was and how they had the time to get their work perfect, because everything was solid and flat and beveled the right way in the corners. Please reconsider your Vertical Years...only then were you any good.

[clare]

Bye Bue Iggy

[Iggy]

replying to clare, Iggy wrote: Thanks for the discussion or debate. I'm sorry I couldn't persuade you, just keep doing what you like.

[Iggy]

replying to Tekkie®, Iggy wrote: First, look up the meaning of troll, then use it correctly. I came after no-one. I simply defended myself and held a discussion. I answer the trolls, but they never answer me. Clare wasn't a troll and simply wanted an explanation and insight from the side that does it right and in the best interests of all.

[Vic Smith]

The bedrooms in my house are all about 10x11 end are entered via a narrow hallway. I can get 10 or 12 footers into the end bedrooms, but forget about getting them in the middle bedroom or the bathroom. No way.