replying to Steve Barker, Iggy wrote:
THANK YOU WILLSHAK! The first answer got it right, Steve I hope Vertical
Installation's what you did. There's NO benefit nor advantage to the Horizontal
Installation. It's the dumbest practice that ruins new everything right from the
start and provides poor fire protection.
How does it provide poor fire protection? Horizontal instalation
makes it a whole lot easier to hide the joints too, which is why
expert drywallers almost ALWATS install the panels horizontally - and
use sheets longer than 8 feet.
replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
Very simply, the seams aren't air-tight and therefore not fire-tight. As proven
by the nightly news (see YouTube). Story upon story of this building and that
home burned down to the ground in less than 30-minutes...what drywall's rated
for and easily capable of retaining a fire for. But, even the ASTM won't correct
its decades-old error in The Code...I've tried for almost 15-years. If you
haven't seen my posted-today list, Vertical Installation is so good that it's
not required to be taped and mudded and is at its full level of fire protection
PROPERLY mudded the joint is as fire resistant as the rest of the
drywall. What the stories don't tell is in many cases there is no
"fire blocking" so when fire gets behind the drywall it's like a
blowtotch. No difference between horizontal and vertical.
replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
That's what I initially thought, until I tried it and broke it down. A
Vertical's seam is 100% backed and the full panel's entire perimeter edges are
as well. However, a Horizontal seam only has a 1-1/2" support every 14-1/2"s.
That's only about 10% of a seam that's backed. And, no-one does nor would waste
the time to properly put any back-blocking behind the seam, which should be
I can kick and hammer a Vertical seam and nothing happens. But, with Horizontal
I can just moderately lean against it to deflect it open and completely crack
the seam open and loose. I've heard your point of better seam-hiding before and
frankly I've only rarely witnessed it. I use just a 10" knife on my seams and
then lightly sand with a block or pole sander's plate. No gaps, totally flat and
entirely invisible, always.
If the first layer of joint compund is a "setting" compound, with the
"drying" compound just used to finish, the joint won't separate when
you lean on it. Dutabond 45 or durabobd 90 is made for that
application. Use it carefully because it is hellishly hard to sand -
it cures like concrete or plaster of paris, rather than drying like
"drywall mud". It is also 100% fire resistant - better than the
This is what I meant by "properly installed"
If you want full fire rated, install 1 layer vetically with screws,
not mudded - then install the second layer horizontal , preferably
with adhesive, and mud.
Commonly done on "shared" walls in wood-framed multi-unit residential
buildings as a "fire break"
replying to clare, Iggy wrote:
Yep, I somewhat agree. However, that's why I came up with The List and purposely
didn't even address your "proper installation". Because, now you're talking
about specialty products and much more difficult practices being NEEDED to
rather poorly try to match Vertical's performance on every level. And still,
you're left with Butt Humps instead of flat walls. I even see "pros" using
Butt-Boards to seam between studs (floating hack-work). Absurdly ridiculous!
I realize I may not bring you over from the dark side. But, why fix and patch
shoddy work with more steps and specialty products when you can just do it
simple, right and quick the first time with basic off-the-shelf products that
are available everywhere? Again, a 90% un-backed seam will never compare to 100%
backed seam. Even in fire tests, you'll immediately notice the tape and mud goes
almost immediately and is non-existent anywhere at the end of the fire test. I
think you should give Vertical a try next time around.
You saying you can't buy DuraBond at your local home improvement
store? And you are saying "drywall compound" isn't a "specialty
And you are saying my joints and installation are not as good or as
solid as yours? I have NEVER has a drywall seam crack - and I don't
have issues trying to get the drywall screws into the 2X4 withoit
tearing out the edge of the drywall. I can keep EVERY screw a minimum
of 2 inches from the edge except the ones at the end of the panel if
my poanel is shorter than my wall. I can buy my drywall the size I
need - 8,9, 10, or 12 feet long - so in MOST rooms, on MOST walls
there is no vertical joint at all that needs to be butted on a 2X4.
Sure makes joints a whole lot simpler when there is just one straight
line around the room, and a few corners.
I did it vertically for years ubtill a real master showed me how it
SHOULD be done, and how much simpler it is Do the ceiling first, with
the long edge at right angles to the natural light or in line with the
line of sight. Then install the top sheet on the walls, lenthwise - so
you get the tapered edge of tje eall panel meeting the tapered edge of
the ceiling panel along the line of site. When mudded, the joint is
straight and considtent, and virtually invisible. Then cut the bottom
panel to the correct size to fit between the floor and the top panel,
leaving about half an inch space at the floor. Jack the panel into
place and screw it down. You now have 2 tapered edges together to mud
and tape. Absolutely no simpler way to make an excellent drywall job.
Using setting compound, the joint is structurally sound and dry in
less than an hour - and the thin skim of "drywall mud" required to
finish the joint dries quickly - unlike a thick bed of muh that
requires 18 hours or more to fully harden, particularly 0n a humid
day. You can rock, mud, and sand a room in an 8 hour day this way -
and even prime it before you go home for supper. It can be painted
before midnight - and it WILL NOT CTACK.
Old Johann finished the mud joint with a sponge, and it required
almost no sanding at all. When I do it, I still need to sand a bit
more, but not nearly as much as when doing it "the old way".
No issues with where the vertical joints meet the ceiling/wall
interface either - dead straight joints, all around the room.
replying to Tekkie®, Iggy wrote:
First, look up the meaning of troll, then use it correctly. I came after no-one.
I simply defended myself and held a discussion. I answer the trolls, but they
never answer me. Clare wasn't a troll and simply wanted an explanation and
insight from the side that does it right and in the best interests of all.
replying to ItsJoanNotJoann, Iggy wrote:
Yeah so? I already explained this to you. And no, not nearly everything...a few
things. I made a compliment here. And the others I added correct, relevant and
expanding content to, for those asking themselves a similar question that happen
upon the threads. You trolling me like I'm doing something illegal or
detrimental IN THE SLIGHTEST is the ignorance I can't comprehend.
You clearly don't want discussion and you clearly don't have anything to add to
the answers and you clearly think everyone else died and should be memorialized
with the thread being retired and removed from the internet.
Do you want your legacy of contribution to be a bunch of incomplete answers? Do
you want threads to die and to make it illegal if someone new comes along to
expound upon the answers or to ask additional questions (where the original
Asker dropped the ball)? Do you just hate interactive websites and absolutely
won't ever respond to anything positively nor cordially, if it's on an old
thread? Please get back to me when you make up your mind about what you're doing
here or how the site can be better...you aren't helping currently.
Some folks just like to put-others-down - I guess it makes them
feel superior or something - don't waste your breath on them.
As for myself - I appreciated your discussion - and the other
constructive intelligent replies - thanks for resurrecting the old
thread. ... except that - I'm so torn and conflicted by the great
arguements for both sides that I'll probably hang my drywall
oblique from here-on-in.
As a retired/disabled emergency services person I have very serious doubts
about the fire protection aspect of any taping method of drywall. I purport
that there are numerous entry points other than drywall joints. The BEST
protection is to have a working smoke and carbon monoxide detector.
I haven't read your quoted article and don't intend to because I am not
signing up for HomemoanerHubless. If you wish to post it on a readily
available site let me know and I will read it as I will your information
from the NFPA site.
replying to Tekkie®, Iggy wrote:
Wow, that's pretty disabled...I'm not signed-up nor registered nor even use
cookies and I romp around with no problem on a 10-year old computer. The link's
right there and free for anyone to enjoy, just scroll to the bottom. Yes, please
do give me any links you think are more useful, much appreciated. Smoke
detectors are great, but not much help when the fire's spreading every second
and not being contained as designed and intended.
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