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Does NEC require a Main Breaker Panel inside the home?

The NEC is a standard, not a law. It has no legal force whatever until a particular jurisdiction adopts it in part or in toto as the electrical code for that jurisdiction.

Reply to
Doug Miller
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The disconnect is about 150 feet away. It sounds like the gray area is that the NEC does not define the distance. I guess some electricians might interpret that it's ok anywhere on the property, others say it has to be attached right to the house wall. It is interesting that the NEC doesn't define the distance. My brother is mostly worried that if he doesn't take care of it now, then he might be required to remedy it if he tries to sell the house later. He just doesn't know if it would cost thousands of dollars to replace the main lug panel in case the electrician determines it's not possible or too costly to add a main breaker in between (because of where the conduit is buried etc). But also since this is a "gray area" in the NEC one has to wonder if there's even any problem or if it's left up to the imagination of whatever local inspector decides the arbitrary distance should be.

Reply to
iwdplz

If the disconnect is 150 feet away, there is no question that the NEC requires an additional disconnect on the structure itself. IMO, it's not a grey area. The citations are 225.31 and 225.32, which I quoted in my original response.

Cheers, Wayne

Reply to
Wayne Whitney

As a point of reference, last week I replaced a 30 circuit panel with 200 amp main breaker, including about 24 circuit breakers for $750. It certainly isn't going to cost thousands

Reply to
RBM

1966 house my father built in Indiana had meter base (buried service) on outside of the carport storage cabinets, with the main disconnect inside the cabinets. It went from there through conduit under carport slab, to the service panel in the basement. From the houses I saw being built in the area through mid 1970s, that was a pretty common arrangement. Only downside to an outside disconnect is that kids can easily put you in the dark.

-- aem sends...

Reply to
aemeijers

Why would he be required to do that? If it met Code when it was installed, that's all that's needed.

Reply to
Doug Miller

Is it 150 feet from the house or 150 feet from the breaker box? If it is 150 feet from the house, then yes it sounds like a violation according to what Seth G. dug up. If your brother is handy at all, he could fix it himself after he owns a home. A new breaker panel isn't that much money. Most of the expense is from labor, since it can be time consuming to re- wire it, but it should be pretty simple. You just have to keep all of the wires straight when you switch everything out.

Reply to
bfrabel

I had my service upgraded to 100A, new panel and breakers, added two receptacles and an outside light (I furnished the fixture) for $200 including labor and material.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

THat the price for parts and labor? What part of the country?

Lou

Reply to
LouB

Depending on how one reads this it is at least a little unclear whether the 10 foot limit applies outside, or only to inside installations... The requirement would certainly make sense for inside. But then 150 feet is a ways to run while the ceiling fan that just came loose is showering sparks on the carpet, so I can see where it could be an issue.

Where is your meter? It it at the pole or by the house?

Reply to
Larry The Snake Guy

I was wondering what the "safety" issue is regarding the distance. Sounds like if there is a faulty major appliance, the main breaker provides a quick convenient shutoff. Couldn't he also just shut off -all- the individual circuit breakers in the basement instead? Maybe this would take 10 seconds longer than flipping one breaker. I am not sure where the meter is. Based on the info my brother has told me so far I am painting a picture in my mind (mostly a guess) that electrical service was at the pole with a meter before the house was built, possibly as part of the vacant land deal, and that's the reason why the meter/disconnect is not attached right on the house. Vermont gets heavy snowfall so it could be hard to go outside in the winter sometimes. But couldn't one simply just shut off all individual breakers if the faulty circuit is not known?

Reply to
iwdplz

This is in occordance with the NEC but possibly does not agree with local code. Even the electtrical inspectors are sometimes wrong. As of

1990 all the house built where I lived were suppose to have the breaker panel on the outside of the house. My house was built in '89 and had the panel inside. WHen I remodeled which resulteed in me moving my current grandfathered in panel 48 inches the local inspector wanted me to relocate it to the outside of the house telling me that this was local code. I requested a copy of the reg and found this was not the case, only the main brreaker had to be external. This saved me a lot of money and I dispise having an external breaker panel as many of my neighbors do. Check the local code, read it yourself. I like having the exteral disconnect, now if I have to go into the box I can do it know it is abosolutely dead inside of it and I dont have to work about coming in contact with the main feed.

Jimmie

Reply to
JIMMIE

Most of my work is in Bill and Hillary Clinton's neighborhood. The price was for materials and labor

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Reply to
RBM

I agree, this house was built in 1999. If the house didn't meet codes at that time, a certificate of occupancy wouldn't have been issued. Even if the location of the disconnect doesn't meet their current codes, Grandfather laws would keep it in compliance, until such time when the service is upgraded, and would have to comply with any new code changes.

Reply to
RBM

It looks like the home inspector did a heads up job on this one. There does need to be a Disconnecting Means for the building. As someone already pointed out the first thing to check is if the lighting & appliance panel board inside the home can be converted from main lug to main breaker. If that is not possible then adding a disconnect ahead of the main lugs is the next cheapest alternative. In 1999 a four conductor feed from the service disconnecting means to the house was not required. If it were installed today it would be required. There is a possibility that no one has mentioned so far. If the homes lighting and appliance panel board is of the split buss type and it is listed for use as service equipment the present installation would be code compliant. A split buss panel has a section with twelve or fewer slots in it that will accommodate six double pole breakers. One or two of those breakers control the current to the rest of the panel. The six or fewer double pole breakers in the main lug portion of the panel meat the requirements of

225.33 Maximum Number of Disconnects. The feeder supply breaker at the meter meets the requirements of section 408.16 Exception 1.

"225.33 Maximum Number of Disconnects. (A) General. The disconnecting means for each supply permitted by

225.30 shall consist of not more than six switches or six circuit breakers mounted in a single enclosure, in a group of separate enclosures, or in or on a switchboard. There shall be no more than six disconnects per supply grouped in any one location."

"408.16 Overcurrent Protection. (A) Lighting and Appliance Branch-Circuit Panelboard Individually Protected. Each lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard shall be individually protected on the supply side by not more than two main circuit breakers or two sets of fuses having a combined rating not greater than that of the panelboard. Exception No. 1: Individual protection for a lighting and appliance panelboard shall not be required if the panelboard feeder has overcurrent protection not greater than the rating of the panelboard."

If the panel in the house is neither split buss nor convertible to main breaker then the only remaining remedy, short of replacing it with a main breaker panel, is to install a separate enclosed switch or circuit breaker at the house end of the feeder to control the current to the house's Lighting and Appliance Branch-Circuit Panelboard. The enclosed switch or circuit breaker would have to be listed for use as service equipment in order to satisfy the requirement of Section

225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. 225.36 Suitable for Service Equipment. The disconnecting means specified in 225.31 shall be suitable for use as service equipment.

-- Tom Horne

Reply to
Tom Horne

As I have pointed out in a previous post the buildings disconnecting means must consist of six or fewer switches, breaker handles, or fuse pull outs.

-- Tom Horne

Reply to
Tom Horne

I don't know about the code, (the answer to your question) BUT i can tell you replacing the panel should not be over about $400 to replace with a main breaker panel.

s

You could rewire the entire house for "thousands".

Reply to
Steve Barker

ral home inspector

Did you get paid both times? If you did, I think you need to thank the ins pector for work paid. Just Saying, some contractor get upset but if you ca n do the right thing and get paid, so why not get paid with no complaint, b ecause the inspector has done most of the selling you as a contractor just need to set the price right.

Reply to
miguel6154

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