Do oil furnace fireboxes and chimneys get creosote?

[mm]

The suject line says it all: Do oil furnace fireboxes and chimneys get creosote?

One chimeny sweep company told me the chimneys do.

[mm]

Googling oil furnace soot xxxxx keeps finding sites that tell me I should inspect and use soot sticks daily. I guess these are commercial furnaces they are talking about.

Do any of you who have oil heat ever use a soot stick, or do you wait for the oil burner serviceman?

[The Daring Dufas]

Creosote produced by an oil furnace? Not likely if you know the definition of what it is. An oil furnace can produce deposits but I don't think it can be described as creosote.

TDD

[mm]

I gogogled creosote and oil furnace but didnt' think to look up creostote itself.

These chimney sweeps and their company are such liars. First he told me the chimney pipes, tthe stove pipe that goes to thhe chimney was too dirty to be cleaned, that it would ruin their brush and wouldn't come clean anyhow, and wanted 685 dollars to replace the pipes, single wall galvanized steel stove pipe, 6 feet of it with 4 right angles, with no promise that the chimnney wouldn't need repair work when they got to that.

The woman who answers the phone there told me he told her I had 1 1/2 inches of soot, even though he told me I had 1/4 to 1/2 inch. After I pointed that out, she said maybe the phone was bad, but he definitely said it was the worst he'd ever seen.

And wny the pipes couldn't be cleaned, because of the creosote. Even though she knew this was the oil furnace chimney and there is none.

The otther company I called is busy until Feb 1 and I'm trying to choose between that company and another which can come much sooner and is cheaper. The first is 50 dollar more than the liars, and the second is the same price as the liars, 125. I just hate to think that anyone who charges 125 is a liar and a thief.

[Ed Pawlowski]

You need a new chimney sweep. You may get soot, but creosote comes as a byproduct of wood burning. Most times it is not all that dangerous so take your time to find the right guy. Few people ever clean an oil furnace flue. I had my boiler replaced and after 30 years, it still did not need cleaning.

[Frank]

I second your comments. I had to go through three guys to find a decent chimney guy. One moron even went up on the snowy roof and would have fallen off if I had not held the ladder.

[mm]

Do you think soot sticks work in the firebox itself? I've seen furnace guys throw them in. One guy even used two, one after another. iirc.

I think that was at the end of their vacuuming the box, so that after they got everything they could that way, they burned off as much as they could.

[mm]

That's good to hear. About four years ago, something was wrong with the burning, and I did end up with 1 1/2 inches of soot all around inside the stove pipe to the chimney. The furnace guy from the oil company who came out fully cleaned the stove pipe but didnt' suggest I clean the chimney. It seems to me, it might be especially dirty too. Don't you think so?

He may have been stupid but at least he was diligent. The last company, the woman on the phone said they always clean from the roof and the ground, but they arrived 15 minutes before dark, and had another stop to make after they left my house at 5:45PM, an hour later .

[Ed Pawlowski]

? "mm" wrote

When the SAT TV guy was here late in the day I asked him what they do when it get dark and have to go on the roof. He said they use a flashlight, but keep on working.

[mm]

I'm sure he does then.

It's conceivable that the guy I had woudl have, but I do't think so. :)

[mm]

I hadn't read this all the way through.

It says "Burning wood and fossil fuels at low temperature causes..."

==> Fuel oil is a fossil fuel so maybe it's saying one can get creosote from an oil furnace. Even you say it's "not likely". I probably don't have any, but I don't want to make a point of telling her boss she lied about this, or mentioning it on the ratings pages, if she can then point to the possibility, no matter how remote, that it is true in some cases.

"....incomplete combustion of the oils in the wood, which are off-gassed as volatiles in the smoke. As the smoke rises through the chimney it cools, causing water, carbon, and volatiles to condense on the interior surfaces of the chimney flue. This leaves a black oily residue referred to as "creosote", which is similar in composition to the commercial products by the same name, but with a higher content of carbon black."

[The Daring Dufas]

Perhaps if you were burning bunker oil and limited the combustion air?

TDD

[benick]

I had the top of my chimmney replaced from just below the roofline up when I had my roof replaced due to loose bricks and crappy flashing and my chimmney was fine...Never been cleaned since 1966..I suspect they are feeding you a line of BS...I have NEVER heard of cleaning a chimmney with just an oil furnace or boiler on it...Just wood burning chimmneys twice a year...HTH....

[mm]

Yes it does help. Your story and the other similar one.

This accounts for why the first chimney sweep for the fireplace didn't even suggest that he clean the furnace chimney. I've wondered about that.

Still, in light of that bad year when I had all that soot in the stove pipe, I think I should do it this once. It's only 125 or 170.

I also read that if there is no chimney cap, as there wasn't for a couple months many years ago, the rain can get in and make sulfuric acid out of the sulfer in the soot, but otoh this seemed to be mostly about factory chimneys where they burned grade 6 oil. Grades 1 and 2, used in homes, weren't mentioned as having much sulfur, but maybe that is because the furnaces are smaller.

The first woman on the phone said that they could tell how much dirt came out, but when the guys got here, they said yes for the fireplace and no for the furnace. I said can't you just see how full the bag in the vacuum is, but they didn't reply. So I may never know if it needed it or not. And really, that's as important to me as getting it cleaned is. I'm curious -- that's first, and I want to know if I wasted my money, and if I hadnt' heard from you, I'd want to know if I should do it again.

[mm]

Okay. Great. Then I'll go back to calling her a liar! At least I'll tell her boss that the repair guys are lying to her or she's lying to me. (Even though I'm sure she's in on it, and probably the boss is too.)

"Bunker fuel is also known as fuel oil, and a number of different

===> But that is what I burn, fuel oil. Grade 1 or 2. He seems to say that all grades are bunker oil.

classifications around the world are used to describe fuel oil; these classifications break bunker fuel into different categories based on its chemical composition, intended purpose, and boiling temperature. In comparison with other petroleum products, bunker fuel is extremely crude and highly polluting."

[The Daring Dufas]

Most North Americans will think of thick almost crude oil when someone mentions "bunker oil". The bottom of the barrel stuff that ships and power plants may use as fuel because it has the consistency of molasses. Because of its long chain molecules and carbon content, it does produce more energy per unit volume when used as fuel. It would be interesting to have a little heat plant using the stuff to produce heat for one or a group of homes. Hot water or steam would probably be the best way to distribute the heat from the mini plant. :-)

TDD

[Ed Pawlowski]

? "The Daring Dufas" wrote

Many large cities do have steam lines running from power plants to users. The most efficient way to move energy is high pressure steam and then reduce the pressure at the point of use. Hospitals use steam for heating and power generation too. One that I know of gets one to two tanker trucks of #6 oil a day. They make heat and some electricity with steam turbines so they have power available at any time if the utility company ever goes down in a storm, etc. The power plant is located about a half block away from the hospital. They make steam at 250 psi and distribute it to the hospital buildings where it is reduced as needed. You can put a lot of steam in a smaller pipe with higher pressure.

[The Daring Dufas]

I had a warehouse a block away from the Alabama Power Powell Avenue Steam Plant in Birmingham some years ago. It's been around forever and will soon be shut down. I don't know what is used for fuel but I'm guessing that it was converted to natural gas long ago.

TDD

[The Daring Dufas]

OOPS! Wiki says it burns coal, It must have scrubbers because I don't remember seeing smoke. :-)

TDD

[mm]

Yes, now that you mention it. The U of Chicago had a steam plant on Cottage Grove Avenue and it provided heat for, I guess, all the school buildings, 20 or 30, 1/4 to to 1/2 mile away, maybe more.

But despite that, when I got to NY, I used to wonder about the steam coming out of the manhole covers in Manhattan**. You can see this in the opening scenes of one or two tv shows. I believe it was from the steam plant on the East River in the 30's or 20's

Wow, there are four of them, at # 74th Street Station (at FDR Drive) # 60th Street Station (at York Ave.) # 59th Street Station (at 11th Ave.) # East River Station (14th St. and FDR) (cogeneration) making both electricity and steam but of course the steam is the interesting part.

The New York Steam Company began providing service in lower Manhattan in 1882.

**Clouds of condensation can sometimes be seen rising from manholes in Manhattan, although this is usually caused by external water being boiled by contact with the steam pipes, rather than leaks in the steam system itself. quote There are 3 more in Brooklyn and Queens but I don't think the steam leaves the property. >