dead outdoor receptacle

[badgolferman]

I have a receptacle on the back deck of my house which doesn't work. It used to work fine but now it doesn't. There is only one cable coming to it. The wires appear to be 12 AWG, but the black/white wires are stranded whereas the ground wire is solid. In the circuit breaker panel there is a 20 amp GFCI breaker which won't stay reset. Every time I try to reset it the breaker trips immediately. I have replaced the receptacle, completely removed the wires cut off the ends, yet the circuit breaker keeps tripping. I put an ohmmeter on the receptacle side of the wire and read around 25 ohms.

What do you suggest I do next?

[Dean Hoffman]

There should be infinite resistance between the black wire and either the ground or neutral wire. I take it the only receptacle on the circuit is the one you just replaced. It sure sounds like there is something odd about the actual wire. Stranded and solid in one cable?

[hubops]

Are there any other < hiding / unused > outdoor receptacles that might be the problem ? Any recent renovations that might have compromised the wiring to the receptacle ? Time for a new GFCI breaker ? John T.

[invalid unparseable]

I might try a new breaker.

[Dean Hoffman]

Or just temporarily swap the wiring with another breaker as a test.

[Scott Lurndal]

I would recommend that the OP call an electrician. Too many oddities, such as stranded conductors which are quite rare in home electrical systems.

[micky]

My house was only 6 years old when I had a similar problem with the outdoor receptacle. It took a while to dawn on me that it might be the breaker, and it was.

I doubt anyone changed the wires from when it worked. But he should ask his wife if maybe she did that.

[micky]

I get it now.

[Marilyn Manson]

Not rare at all. The OP said he has a "receptacle on the back deck of my house".

Stranded THHN is commonly used for outdoor wiring. I have receptacles on my deck and in my shed, all wired with stranded THHN, running in grey PVC conduit. I ran standard Romex inside the house, transitioning to THHN when it leaves.

THHN also comes in solid form, so a solid ground with stranded power conductors is not all that strange. Some electricians swear by solid ground wires, although solid is harder to pull through conduit if there are lots of turns. DAMHIKT

[Marilyn Manson]

Where on the deck is the receptacle? Is it on the wall of the house or out on the deck someplace, maybe with some conduit coming to the receptacle box?

When the breaker trips is anything else dead? (might be hard to tell if it's an unused device.)

Are you willing to open up the panel?

If so, disconnect the wires at the breaker and try to reset it. It could be a bad breaker. If it resets with no wires attached, but trips when the wires are connected to the breaker but not connected to anything at the receptacle end, they may be a junction box or other fixture in the run that is causing the GFCI to trip.

It would be interesting to know if the wires at the breaker are stranded. If not, then there is definitely a junction box or device in the run. It's pretty common to run standard Romex from the panel to the exterior wall and then transition to THHN after leaving the dwelling. Maybe that junction box has gotten wet or maybe there another junction box outside the house, under the deck perhaps.

(If I have to tell you what you should do before opening up the panel and disconnecting the wire, you shouldn't open up the panel and disconnect the wire.)

[Scott Lurndal]

That depends on where you live. Residential THHN isn't _common_ in most parts of the country west of the mississippi, in my experience (exceptions for pool pumps, wells, compressors usually 240VAC loads).

I have bent a lot of pipe and pulled a fair amount of THHN and am quite familiar with it.

Type UF is also commonly used for outdoor _residential_ wiring.

My entire barn is THHN (stranded for pullability) in 1/2 EMT. But the residential external general utility outlets are all typical 12-2NM WG.

I hate pulling solid THHN. The nice thing about EMT is you don't need to pull a separate ground. PVC on the other hand, your point. But I'd argue it is not common at all in residential installations.

[Jim Joyce]

Also, he should consider the possibility of a hidden junction box. If there's 12/2 Romex leaving the breaker and stranded THHN at the receptacle, and there's no visible junction box along the way, guess what, there's a hidden junction box somewhere. They aren't up to code, of course, but they seem to happen anyway.

[Marilyn Manson]

You said "stranded conductors which are quite rare in home electrical systems" yet you agree that THHN is commonly used for outdoor residential wiring. (By saying that UF is *also* common, you are saying that stranded THHN is common.)

So which is it? "quite rare" or "commonly used"?

And I'd argue that its presence, especially at an outdoor receptacle, isn't a reason to call an electrician.

[hubops]

The junction box need not be hidden at all - it could easily be the porch light 6 feet from the receptacle. John T.

[Scott Lurndal]

I don't agree, regardless...

Of your interpretation the prose.

I would. I've seen a whole lot of dangerous stuff done by people who don't know what they are doing. Calling a professional is the right thing to do.

[trader_4]

Stranded wire is not odd, it's used in conduit for example, which this might be.

[trader_4]

Agree, try moving the wires from another circuit at the panel to the GFCI and see if it holds with that. If it holds, then try to figure out the routing from the panel to the receptacle and what else might be on that line. Would be very common for multiple receptacles to be on a 20A outdoor circuit like that. Might run to a garage too, for example, anywhere that a GFCI would be used.

[Jim Joyce]

Of course, which gets back to one of the first questions y'all asked when this topic came up: what else doesn't work when this breaker is tripped?

[Marilyn Manson]

How would you interpret your use of the word "also"?

also in American English (ˈɔlsou) ADVERB

1. in addition; too; besides; as well He was thin, and he was also tall

If you mistakenly used the word "also", just admit it. You'll come out looking better than you do right now.

What do find that is so dangerous about the OP's question that immediately indicates that a call to professional is required? He stated that everything used to work fine and now the GFCI won't reset. What is so dangerous about that? Sounds to me that either the safety device is doing its job or perhaps the safety device itself might be bad.

Based on what the OP has told us, why do you assume that something dangerous is going on? If the OP had said that there was Romex at the receptacle and the breaker kept tripping, would you have said call a professional? If not...

There is more than one person in this thread that has already said that stranded wire is not odd/rare. Just because you think it is doesn't make it so. Not only isn't it rare it's also not dangerous.

This ng is called alt.home.repair not alt.call.a.professional. Some of us are here to help.

[Marilyn Manson]

As long as the panel is open, might as well test the breaker with no load at all.