Constant-temperature dehumidification

[Joe Fischer]

The power was from the heat produced by the audience, at rest I think the numbers are somewhere around 400 BTU/hour, maybe more. And 800 times 400 BTU per hour = about 320,000 BTU per hour, or 90KW? I don't believe it!

And I think this means that the upward draft caused by that heat is proportional to the size of the audience making it also self controlling.

This system likely worked better in the evening than during the day, but that was ok because the only days the theater was open was Sat and Sun.

If I made a wrong assumption, sorry, I really never thought much about just how little I had to do to manage the heating and cooling system until now.

I also want to mention that the places I lived that had gravity air furnaces seemed much more comfortable. But they had to be in the basement, were not very efficient, and were coal fired. Joe Fischer

[Joe Fischer]

There is no germ breeding, the vapor is steam, the water is fresh from the tap every day with ample clorine, and I don't think I have a sinus problem, I do have a dry air problem if I don't humidify when the outside temperature is below 40 F.

I also think I would have even more of a problem if I had a forced air furnace which could raise temperatures fast, the baseboard heat is not able to catch up very quickly if I let it get behind.

Joe Fischer

[Duane C. Johnson]

In all likelihood it was water. The instrument most use is called a "Sling Psychrometer".

> I assume he was checking dew point, but I am not > certain.

Actually he was measuring what is called "Wet Bulb Temperature". Along with the "Dry Bulb" or ambient temperature the relative humidity can be calculated.

Dew point temperature is always lower than wet bulb. Wet bulb is basically the cooling effect and is dependent on the relative humidity.

Sure, dew point is another method to measure relative humidity.

Duane

[Solar Flare]

The medical people disagree with you. The heated water vapour is a breeding ground for bacteria and virii. Not recomended for treatment of sinus, ear or cold infections. Cold water humidifiers are recommended but they leave deposits of dust everywhere.

[nicksanspam]

No thanks. ASHRAE says houses need 15 cfm per occupant, so zero people need zero cfm.

Nick

[nicksanspam]

Au contraire, current thinking is "build it tight, and ventilate it right."

Some Canadian houses are extremely airitght, and very healthy.

Nick

[Robert Gammon]

Yes, very airtight, with controlled, heat exchanged ventilation HRV, with ERVs recommended.

Get them very tight to minimize heat gain/loss as appropriate, and introduce outside air at controlled rates with minimal loss of heated (or cooled) air.

Energy savings of 30-40% are documented in Canada

[nicksanspam]

An exhaust fan with a 60% humidistat is cheaper. Latent heat may be worth exchanging. Even air-leaky houses need ventilation on mild days...

Nick

[nicksanspam]

All we need is a difference in bouyancy, ie a column of indoor air that is warmer and/or moister than the column of outdoor air.

Nick

[nicksanspam]

HRVs are not required by law in every part of Canada. Some of those airtight houses just have exhaust fans, eg R2000 houses in Ontario. Exhaust fans waste more energy than HRVs and ERVs, but the amount of energy isn't large, and it may not matter in a solar-heated house :-)

OTOH, the legal requirement for HRVs on Minnesota's air-leaky houses seems to be a successful lobbying effort and a serious waste of money.

Nick

[wmbjk]

"Involved" eh? Previously you wrote that "there may be colds that are caught, but mine come from inflamed sinus irritated by dry air." So here's your opportunity to make your opinion clear - do you believe that you can catch a cold *without* exposure to a virus?

RH here this morning is 2%, but it can shift quickly and wildly during monsoon season (just ending). According to your theory, we should be afflicted by colds constantly. How do you explain the fact that we go years between colds?

Your advice reminds me of the self-titled country doctor who claimed a miracle cure for the common cold. When a patient complained that he still had the cold after a few days, the "doctor" told him the cure takes at least a week.

Wayne

[Robert Gammon]

Canada says all new houses there should be equipped with an air to air heat exchanger that ventilate the house several times a day (I forget the actual spec)

If the outside air temp is -20F, you want to introduce as little of that as possible to the house. Air to air heat exchangers will raise that incoming temp quite a bit by cooling off the outgoing air.

Nope not as cheapas Nick's solution, but our Northern neighbors have much more severe winters than most of us in the USA experience.

Even Washington state mandates a ventilation system in all new residential construction (they don't say what it has to be just that there is one)

[Joe Fischer]

Furniture needs constant humidity, whole system efficiency cannot be based on minimum regulations or standards.

Efficiency experts are driving a lot of companies out of business with bad advice, reduced inventories, reduced hours, and eliminated services.

Joe Fischer

[Keith Williams]

Nah, I didn't have nearly as many colds when I lived in NY as I do now in VT (just getting over a cold now, in fact). The reason people get more colds in cold weather is that they're holed up closer to each other. When it's warm they're outside more with more separation.

...but it's a dry cold! ;-)

[Joe Fischer]

Without exposure to a person having a contagious virus or whatever, you can believe it, I am a loner, having been widowed and carrying the torch for 45 years.

I spend a summer in Las Vegas, 1 percent and 115 degrees was perfect for me.

I am not a doctor and I did not claim a cure, the suggested methods of prevention listed at the link you provided are almost identical to what I do, except my kids are fifty-ish and not in school.

Joe Fischer

[nicksanspam]

Robert Gammon errs again:

Do let us know when you find this alleged spec. Meanwhilst, you might explain the new houses in Ontario with exhaust fans vs ERVs.

Sounds like an exhaust fan would qualify there as well.

Nick

[nicksanspam]

Joe Fischer errs again:

Some does, and that's easy to do with minimal air leakage.

Nick

[Robert Gammon]

YOU pointed the spec to us, NOW READ THIS PAGE

Note that this is not a MANDATORY construction method, it is a voluntary program designed to influence both builders and consumers.

R-2000 homes will be blower door tested to ensure that the required standard for air tightness is met.

Mechanical ventilation systems must be provided. Most R-2000 builders use a Heat Recovery Ventilator

Note that not all R-2000 homes are REQUIRED to have HRVs, they point out that builders who follow the spec to produce an R-2000 certified home will often choose to include an HRV as the chosen ventilation method.

And Canada is far more than just Ontario, and Ontario is far more than the southeastern region that lies just across the lake. Toronto winters are very different than Chicoutimi, or Calgary, or even locations in Ontario in the north and west regions. R-2000 addresses the needs of the ENTIRE country.

[Joe Fischer]

Make up your mind, is it leakage, or powered mandated air exchange. Can the right amount of leakage qualify as a measured amount of air exchange. Is the heat in the air being exchanged all that much, or is most of the heat in the solid objects in the house. Do I really need another fan running to be called an efficient house, does that make it more efficient or greener, cleaner or meaner?

I would like to make a suggestion about all government regulations other than safety and security.

Joe Fischer

[nicksanspam]

Do "they" also say that all new houses "should" be painted white? :-)

No thanks.

Aha. That kind of "should," as in "All men should be named Dave."

From the mountains, to the prairies, to the oceans, white with foam...

Nick