Carpet or Hardwood flooring?

[HeyBub]

Actually, I paid her scant attention since my eyes were locked on the hideous flooring.

[HeyBub]

You had to have been there. It was really awful.

[Tim Watts]

I'm not so sure - but it's close. Depends partly what you are comparing - good laminates are not that cheap (eg Pergo, which I have used in the past)

Yes.

Indeed - I did that. In one case, I didn't even have to bother, the previously laid lino did it for me as evidenced by the musty black patch.

Agree - the cost of a sheet of plastic is peanuts in the grand scheme.

[nestork]

For anyone that's interested, here is some information on cleaning carpets you probably won't find anywhere else:

1. Solid dirts like skin cells, road grit, pollen, etc. will gradually accumulate in a carpet over it';s lifetime. No matter what anyone tells you, once that dirt works it's way deep into the carpet pile, no vaccuum cleaner or carpet shampoo'er is going to get it out.

1. The way to tell when your carpet is ready for the dumpster is if you shampoo the carpet and it smells like a wet dog for a week or two afterward until it dries out. What's happening is exactly the same thing that happens when you give a dog a bath. All of the bacteria deep in the carpet pile suddenly find themselves in bacteria heaven because the moisture that's been added to the carpet gives them mobility to move around, and there's plenty of food for them to feed on in the form of dead skin cells, pollen, etc. So, you get a bacterial population explosion inside your carpet, and that's what makes it smell just like a wet dog until it dries out and the bacteria go dormant.

2. Professional carpet cleaners are well aware of this and when they get called to shampoo an old carpet, they add a bacteriacide to their solution water so that the bacteriacide kills all the bacteria that gets wet, thereby avoiding the smell which would otherwise occur afterwards. They do that simply to avoid customer complaints about them "causing the carpet to smell up the house", but that don't mean the carpet doesn't need to be replaced.

1. If you rent a carpet shampoo'er, and you feel compelled to follow Rug Doctor's or Easy Off's instructions to add 5 ounces of carpet soap for each gallon of solution tank water, then go over the carpet afterwards with just clean water to remove the excess soap from the carpet.

Most professional carpet cleaning soaps will tell you to use 1 to 2 fluid ounces of soap per 5 gallons of solution tank water. By following Rug Doctor's or Easy Off's instructions, and using 5 ounces of soap per gallon, you're using much more soap than you really need. And then, when you consider that most rental carpet shampoo'ers don't have all that much suction (see PS below), you end up leaving too much residual soap in the carpet after shampoo'ing it. That soap leaves a sticky soap film over the surface of all the carpet fibers as the water evaporates and the carpet dries out, making the carpet "sticky" so that it gets dirty faster and making normal vaccuuming ineffective at removing that dirt. In fact, the only effective way to remove that dirt is to shampoo the carpet again to dissolve the sticky dirty soap film. But, when people do shampoo the carpet again, they'll think to themselves: "Wow, look at how dirty the recovery tank water is. This carpet shampoo'er is really geting this carpet clean!", and that's bogus. All that's happening is that your're dissolving the dirty soap film on all the carpet fibers, and if you followed Rug Doctor's or Easy Off's instructions, all you did was replace that sticky soap film so your carpet will be just as dirty in another year or two.

You can avoid this problem by either using less soap in the shampooer to begin with, or doing a second pass over the cleaned carpet with just clean water in the solution tank to recover the residual soap.

PS: Just in the same way that gasoline engines are rated according to their number of cylinders and the horsepower they produce, vaccuum motors are rated according to number of stages they have and the "inches of water lift" (which is a measure of vaccuum strength) they produce. A normal single stage vaccuum motor like you find in a Hoover upright vaccuum cleaner will typically have only a single stage vaccuum motor and provide 30 inches of water lift. A good quality wet/dry Shop-Vac style vaccuum cleaner will typically have a two stage vaccuum motor and provide about 60 inches of water lift. An entry level professional carpet cleaner will typically have either a single three stage vaccuum motor or two two stage vaccum motors piped in parallel and provide from

80 to 100 inches of water lift. My carpet shampooer has two three stage vaccuum motors in parallel and provides 183 inches of water lift according to it's specifications. And, you can get gasoline powered truck mounted units that use a gasoline engine to run 6 to 8 three stage vaccuum motors simultaneously that will suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

The more suction your shampoo'er has, the more dirty soapy water you will get out of the carpet with it, and the less soap and dirt will be left behind in the carpet once it's dry. It's the fact that rental carpet shampooers typically only have a single two stage vaccuum motor, and the fact that Rug Doctor and Easy Off tell you to use too much soap, that results in them leaving too much soapy soiled water behind in the carpet, and that sticky soap film remaining in the carpet when it's dry. It's that residual soap that makes the carpet get dirty faster, and if I was a suspicious person, I'd say that both Rug Doctor and Easy Off are intentionally misleading people to use too much soap when cleaning their carpet SO THAT their carpets get dirty faster and the only effective way of getting that dirt out is to rent a carpet shampoo'er again. And, that's not even accounting for people's tendency to use twice as much soap as recommended to ge the carpet "twice as clean".

People can decide for themselves if they agree with me or not, but I believe there's a scam going on here.

[HeyBub]

I don't think it's EXACTLY peanuts. Vapor barrier material may be as low as five cents/sq ft (impregnated paper) up to, if it includes cushioning underlayment, up to $0.90/sq ft.

Note there is NO difference between a vinyl vapor barrier and 6 mil contractor trash bags. With the latter, you'll do a bit more cutting and taping. That's all.

Or you can use roofing felt, which is probably the easiest to install and pretty cheap ($0.11/sq ft from HD).

[clare]

Even better yet is something like "dri-floor" - or if you are using

12mm or thicker laminate, just the plastic waffle like used on foundation exterior to keep water away from the concrete - basically the same stuff they put on the back of the aspenite to make dri-floor.. It allows the moisture that comes up through the concrete to drain away or otherwize dissipate - which plastic sheeting does not

- and it is MUCH more resistant to damage.

[Tim Watts]

If you're paying say $2/sqft for a decent laminate (Pergo say) or $4+ for engineered harwood (Kahrs), it would be really cheap to worry about 10c/sqft for a vapour barrier

Felt - that's just pikey...

But as you say, many underlays are available with inbuilt vapour barriers - it's what I used - and an underlay on concrete is a good idea unless you are going to glue the boards down - get's rid of the "hardness" of the surface and makes it much more pelasant to walk on barefoot.

[gregz]

Just a couple adds. I use mean green with good results. I also add oxyclean, which when drying activates killing bacteria and also keeps working until dry, in cleaning. My borrowed machine works well. Hoover.

The soaps don't usually smell, and most just leave a carpet smell, regardless. You can try washing machine smelling crystals that dissolve in the mix. There was only one cleaner I used to use that smelled great. It was westlys auto cleaner, interior, which they don't make anymore, darn.

Greg

[clare]

I often do an intermediate or final run with vinegar in the water - and on wool carpet, a once over with a bit of fabric softener in it. Gets the soap scum out fairly effectively.

[clare]

Roofing felt is NOT a vapour barrier - by design.

[bob haller]

area rugs and runners are a major cause of falls for the elderly.....

hardwood if wet can be very slippery

[Vic Smith]

Never knew that. My dogs sometimes flip up the hallway runner. But I'm more likely to trip over a dog in the dark than a rug.

Haven't noticed that. Always wipe up spills quickly. No rain to speak of gets on the floors.

[Tim Watts]

I've noticed hardwood is a *lot* better than laminate; the latter really is a death trap with wet bare feet.

[bob haller]

do note dogs can bring in water easily.......

[clare]

Hardwood floors and crepe soled slippers - solves the "cold floor" and the"slippery" problem at the same time.

[clare]

Depends a lot on the "texture" of both the hardwood and the laminate.

- and how much of what wax is on the hardwood - - - - .

[Tim Watts]

Mine are oiled - which probably helps.

[ckelly10]

The thing with changing your flooring is that it is a big job and one that won?t be done for another few years, well at least ideally. To change a floor all the furniture and room items have to be removed and stored somewhere else. Then the floor has to be fitted before everything gets moved back into place.

The mistake a lot of people make is to only think about the present problems a carpet or wood floor may make when trying to decide. However because the floor will be a permanent feature for years to come you should try and think about future problems you may face. This was our downfall.

Last year we decided to get a wooden floor from 'here'

Anyway to cut a long story short we now have a pet dog who we love very much but I cannot say the same for the wood floor. It now looks a complete mess and has been basically transformed into a giant expensive scratch pad. We cannot afford to replace the floor again anytime soon and regret getting a wood floor. I am not saying wood floors are in anyway bad as before we got daisy (our dog) I preferred the wood floor to our carpet as it was easy to clean and gave the house a more modern and attractive image.