I agree but I wonder where the moisture comes from? Condensation? Leaks at the entry/exit points from the ground? Well glued PVC *should* be waterproof, should it not? From what I've read about UF wire, direct burial should be fine. I just wish I could get away with direct burial of the juvie living next door that's caused this need for better perimeter lighting.
TKS
Is that the stuff where the insulation is actually some gel goo that keeps the water out?
TKS
Run 12 volt lighting - bury the wire as deep as you can, but if you can't get deeper than 6 inches? No worry.
There is shielded cable which is more expensive of course. I don't think there would be any code problems if you ran a spare 12w/g either. Are gophers or mice an issue in your area?
Explosives, eh? That would make me even more unpopular than I already am with the neighbors. I would definitely try solar powered lights before it comes to that.
TKS
That's nice - just the kind of exemption I need. Thanks!
TKS
Yes, I suspect wire is going to be cheapest part of this project. I wanted to run a closed circuit TV cable in the same ditch but everything I've read says it's going to pick up interference. I don't know enough electronics to know for sure, but shouldn't that TV cable with 4 layers of shielding be immune to any RF radiating from a 110 volt AC line running along side it? I bought a thousand feet of it so I can afford to experiment. Didn't know they made that in burial v. indoor stuff, either until I was looking a few minutes ago. Not sure why I would really want a second UF 14/2 cable because the ground's pretty stable and too tough for critters to drill through.
Not unless they recently mutated. Well, mice maybe but no one I know had complained about rodents other than raccoons and they keep to the once-a-week garbage bins, mostly. With my luck, my new trench will find them all.
Our county went to once-a-week to save money but in the summer, it's no fun to live downwind of a large family with lots of youngsters that consume Pampers by the bale. Think they would get the message if I set up a huge pedestal fan in the yard to blow the stench back their way?
TKS
Great Caesar's Ghost! Why didn't I think about that? I think 14/2 UF with ground should be more than enough to power some LED lawn and spot lighting, But there's an additional payoff with going DC (someone correct me if I am wrong). There's no RF interference on a video feed from a parallel DC power cable. It's the AC 60 sine wave that causes the video interference. Two birds killed with one stone.
BSSF, sir. I thank you! (Best Suggestion So Far)
TKS
Yes, thanks for reminding me. Good idea.
The last time I used my post-hole digger I remember saying to myself "this is a younger man's work!" In this clay/rock hard-packed soil it takes a long, long time to dig out very little material. Or run into a boulder as big as a barrel. I think this long a dig will take a gizmo or a julio.
TKS
We have clay and loam etc. in my part of the country. It's good crop growing soil. We keep the rocks in our heads. Critters sometimes chew the insulation off buried wires. The wires can corrode and actually rot through. It happens to both buried aluminum and copper. Lightning doesn't help either. I did run across one time when a badger did chew through a single 14AWG copper wire. I've found a couple times when lightning bored a hole into the ground to the wire and creating an open. This is irrigation system wiring so the underground wires can run hundreds of feet. One low voltage wire we use will typically have a 9000 ft. circuit. The odds are greatly in your favor with a 40' run.
With regard to interference into the TV line from the 60 Hz 120V line, yes, that can happen. The 12V circuit mentioned for lighting is, unfortunately , 12V, 60 Hertz so there is still potential for interference, but it should be only 10% of the possibility of interference using 120V.
If you are really thinking about hiring an electrician, ask him. I am sure he has dug some trenches around there and knows what you are up against. He may even have a recommendation on a guy to dig it or just do the subcontracting himself, cheaper than you can get a guy. You will get a feel for what you are up against pretty quick when you start talking to them,.
On the "interference" thing, if you space the wires an inch or 2 apart in the trench, it won't be an issue at all.. If you are worried, twist the UF a little but usually that happens when you pull it out of the box. In real life, coax is pretty noise resistant. Same with Cat-5/6.
Yes "flooded" phone wire is the stuff with silicone grease in it. That is the gold standard for underground wire but anything rated "direct burial" should work.
You probably just need cable rated for underground use. I asked our phone company what wire to use and they gave me a couple hundred feet for free. Really surprised me.
If your original wires were in PVC conduit, it should be a simple matter to pull in new cable as you pull out the old.
Of course, I now get my phone service through our cable internet, and the individual phones are wireless. We don't even use the old phone wiring anymore.
Anthony Watson
It's fairly easy to add elbows to work around obstacles, but they do make flexible conduit also.
Of course, there's no need for conduit if you use the proper cable and bury it deep enough. Conduit is mostly for added protection and/or to make changes easier in the future.
In my case I was running a 4" drain line to direct water away from our driveway. The pipe is rigid, straight, and had to have the proper slope for drainage. I was also working my way around some trees, tunneling under some large roots.
I didn't have too much trouble till I reached a spot where two huge boulders (about 4 feet across each) were touching each other under ground. Thankfully, my planned route went right between the boulders so I simply busted a bit off the side of each boulder so the 4" drain pipe would fit through. A lot of work, but everything worked out well in the end.
I also had to split pieces off several large boulders (larger than my car) last year so I could build a retaining wall. Our pump house is up on that hill, so digging the rocks out was not an option. I've gotten fairly good with a rotary hammer and feathers/wedges.
Anthony Watson
You might want to look into low voltage lighting. You could run the wire right on top of the ground and cover it with mulch or something if you really don't want to dig down. Of course, burying it a few inches would still be a smart idea.
Alternatively, you could just install battery powered LED lights and not worry about cables at all. You would need to swap batteries occasionally, but if you used rechargeables it wouldn't be expensive.
Anthony Watson
I don't have a lot of experience with NEC, but my gut sense is following NEC will result in a safe and reasonable result, in most cases.
- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .
Yes and yes.
Well glued PVC *should* be
Yes, PVC leaking is rarely the problem.
From what I've read about UF wire, direct burial
I know what you mean....
A backhoe is going to create a hell of mess compared to a ditchwitch, just to lay cable or conduit. But it depends on the area, if it's lawn or just dirt, etc.
I've rented many tools and have never been offered an insurance plan. If you break it, you have to pay to fix it. And your concern is valid. I would think they are pretty tough and a typical rock isn't going to bust it, but depending on how many you have, who knows.... And if you bust it, you're at a disadvantage. The rental company is goind to fix it and come up with the repair price. If it's unreasonable, you can dispute it, take them to small claims, etc, but it could become a hassle. I've never had that experience. Only once when renting a slice seeder from HD, the guy accused me of not cleaning it off and wanted to charge me $25 extra. I had washed it off, I just somehow missed one clump of dirt on the bottom. I had to get a manager over and then they relented.
The 12 volt circuit is GENERALLY AC but there is nothing saying it cannot be DC, and 12 volt sis a lot less than 10% as likely to cause interference.
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