below grade-level roads
Some rural roads are like trenches, that is, with a steep hill a foot or two high on either side, even when the land as a whole is rather flat.
Is that because they were horse and wagon trails for many years before they were paved? The traffic broke up the earth and the dust blew away, making the road get lower and lower?
Or, is there some other reason?
Or, do you not know the kind of road I'm talking about? Around here they are pretty common.
You're talking through your arse Rod! You've obviously never been in the WA outback in the 70s. All the unsealed roads were just as described by micky. An example of a road I did a lot of kilometres on - Meekatharra to Port Hedland - I worked at Newman. The bitumen, single lane only, went a little North of Meeka, then it was just graded dirt from then on. As micky stated, the main road surface was anything up to a metre below the surrounding terrain and when it rained, the road became a river and vehicles (cars) were forced up on the surrounding terrain making new
*tracks*. The trucks and road trains didn't give a shit and tore up the now muddy road bed making it unusable by cars until a grader came through. I used those roads at the end of every 6 week shift pattern (at work). Weekend in Perth - an 800 mile drive each way every six weeks. Most of the roads I used in the 70s are now sealed 2 lane affairs. Some, however, are still like this;
The roads in Maryland probably were wagon roads that got paved. Land was bought around them and they were stuck with what they had. We have pretty much the opposite here and the roads are criticized as being dams. The roads usually came first and the land was dug up the build up the road bed higher than the surrounding land. When they turned Alligator Alley into I-75 we spent $150 million extra to build bridges to allow the everglades water to flow under the road. To be politically correct they said it was for the non-existent Florida Panther. (they are garden variety cougars trapped in South Florida by development)
Ariund here most "rural" roads have relatively deep/wide "drainage ditches" on both sides and the roads themselves vary from somewhat lower to somewhat higher than the surrounding fields. Where they are higher snow drifts across them and the roads get icy - where they are lower the snow drifts in and fills them level with the fields - so either way you can't win in the winter. They cut through hills, making the road lower, and fill trhtough the valleys, making the roads higher
- attempting to keep the roads more level than the surrounding coutryside - particularly through Wilmot Township which is very much influenced by several large moranes. There the fields may often be higher on one side and lower on the other, with the roads carved into the hilsides. Generally when roads are rebuilt they are built to be higher than the surrounding land to keep them from being stuffed with snow, and to help visibility during storms. -( "sunken" roads turn into white-out tunnels pretty much regardless which way the wind blows)
Well, I'm talking about roads that are paved now, but I'm asking if the reason those that are below grade are that way because before maybe 1920 to 1940, for 100 years and more, they were not paved.
And I'm asking if the foot, horse, buggy, and wagon traffic during unpaved years is what made the road below grade. ?? I can't think of any other reason but I don't like to believe things as fact just because they seem to be correct.
This is an extreme example,
And I'm asking if that applies to most of those roads that are lower than the land beside them.
The grammar school near my home in Indianpolis is called Delaware Trail Elementary School*** because the road connecting 71st Street and 73rd is not part of the street grid and had earlier been a trail used by Delaware Indians. However, maybe they didn't use it much or maybe the earth underneath is different and it doesn't have high shoulders. Rather it's as someone here descirbed, at grade with a drainage ditch on the side of the road with houses**.
***Wow, do things change! They've torn down the school I almost went to, for houses, and assigned its name to a school ten miles away. ** As an aside, almost all the roads for miles around had ditches next to them, usually both sides, and about a mile from our house, there was Ditch Road. The ditch next to it was 5 or 10 times the cross section of the other ditches.Our street had a ditch in front of many houses but for ours and some others culvert had been installed and the ground was level all the way to the road. I dont' know if the culvert would have holes to let water draining from the road into it, like the plastic pipe that runs around the foundation of my house. Or
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 15:36:36 -0400, Clare Snyder posted for all of us to digest...
Yeah, come to Pennsylvania the land of potholes, sunken roads and neglect. When they 'rebuild' roads they just mill the surface and put new blacktop on. The manhole covers and inlets can be higher or lower than the surface. They ignore the sunken, potholed, eroded areas, sometimes maybe throwing some stone in and pave. Bad areas reappear in 3 years or less. Sometimes they chip and oil. At least the dirt roads (few) aren't paved with a mixture of stone and salt as a binder, which I believe New York and Indiana? do. Rust magnets.
On Wed, 17 Mar 2021 20:36:25 -0400, micky posted for all of us to digest...
I think PA roadways are mostly cart-ways. The farm roads weave and dodge according to farmers plots. You can't get there from here.
Around here chipseal is the standard procedure.
You mean calcium chloride - which is applied to keep the dust down. When applied to limestone it almost turns to concrete.
I live in Waterloo County - same thing.. Pennsylvania North.
On Fri, 19 Mar 2021 19:22:19 -0600, rbowman posted for all of us to digest...
Yeah, it's done around here too. It doesn't really work if the potholes aren't patched correctly or the underlayment is crappy. I don't think brining the road is helpful. I wrote the highway guy in a local paper about my theory but never got a response. (That's not surprising because I get few replies from papers since they have cut their staffs).
On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 00:04:34 -0400, Clare Snyder posted for all of us to digest...
Ok, it must work for that but not the vehicles longevity.
On Sun, 21 Mar 2021 00:06:16 -0400, Clare Snyder posted for all of us to digest...
You should send some people down here to teach PennDot. Just warn them not to pick up on any of PennDots "ideas".
One of your "benefits" of low taxation and limited government involvement in your everyday life. (read that as republican government) Remember, ot's just the "shit" that "trickles down" in an economy.
afaik the underlayment is more chipseal. It's great on the heavily traveled city streets. There are two ruts so on a bike you have to be cautious at stop lights; stop on the hill and it's a long reach down to the valley. They are really peachy when it rains and it turns into two rivers.
The standard procedure is to spray the binder, lay down copious amounts of gravel, and let traffic pack it down. In a week or two they sweep up the berms of excess gravel. I've wondered if shoveling up the excess to use on my driveway would be considered theft.
If you go out with coffee or cold drinks you may even get the binder sprayed too. Just a guess, I'd never bribe town workers in front of my house. No, not me.
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 19:59:58 -0600, rbowman posted for all of us to digest...
I did so and considered that once it's in the ditch it's fair game. The person doing the sweeping is bored and doesn't care what's in the ditch nor have a remedy.
On Mon, 22 Mar 2021 23:39:05 -0400, Ed Pawlowski posted for all of us to digest...
I'm too well known and know several of the workers, happily. I just don't involve the boss. :)
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