Automobiles

[Molly Brown]

Up until the sixties and seventies on the weekends I used to see people in their driveways and garages repairing or doing maintenance on their cars. I hardly ever see that anymore. It used to be that if you wanted to have your car repaired you could just go to any repair shop. Today you have to consider what the repair involves. If it=92s something complicated you need to take it to the dealer and pay the big bucks or same time next year you=92re probably going to have the same problem. To know why this is just lift up the hood of a car from that era and then do the same thing to an automobile today.

[Joe]

Thank you, Captain Obvious.

[Jon Danniken]

"Pat" wrote: [snip]

More like it's because people are too lazy to actually do work anymore, let alone actually *learn* about something that requires it.

This is linked with a major decline in common sense, the main culprit of which is a steadfast refusal to accept reality over fantasy in our society.

Jon

[Molly Brown]

=93Thank you, Captain Obvious.=94

What is not obvious is that pe =93So if fewer people are changing their own oil, then there's a reason other than engine complexity because engine complexity doesn't factor in to an oil change.

Yes it does. I remember when ever I needed to change my oil filer I could just reach under the car and remove it. Now in most cars there is no way to get to it unless you lift up the front and even then the filter is placed in such an awkward location that your whole arm gets drenched in oil along with all the other components under it by the time you take it off.

=93Cars are more reliable and need fewer repairs, so the total number of repairs per car is going down. In fact, engine complexity might be responsible for this as points and carburetors have been eliminated.=94

I don=92t think cars as a whole are more reliable. I would like to see some statistics on this to believe it. I am sure each component in a car is more reliable than it was but there are many more components than before which significantly raises the possibility that one or the other is going to break.

=93Lifestyle changes including more single women who do not have "a man to fix the car.

Employment changes including the shift from mechanical/blue collar jobs to office/white collar jobs so that many people do not have basic skills and tools. =93

That=92s a very good point that I had not considered. Thank you for pointing that out but I have to disagree with you about tools. Today=92s vehicles require many exotic and expensive tools that the old cars never did.

=93Change in retail so that more places are open evenings and weekends.=94

I=92m not sure if I understand what you are trying to say there.

=93Air conditioning. People are not comfortable going out in the sun/ heat and working. TV and other entertainment. The generation that worked on their cars did not spend the weekend watching TV or playing video games.=94

Those are other very good reasons that I also had not considered. Thank you again for that knowledge.

[PV]

In my father's day they would change the oil in the back driveway, throw the empty cans and old filter in the garbage and pour the old oil down the sewer. Yup let's go back to those days.

With today environmental awareness it makes far more sense to run my vehicle into an oil change shop, have the work done inside of 1/2 an hour and be out. They have the facilities to handle the used oil and filter.

The rest of the car maintenance, i.e. tune-ups etc have now gone out of the hands of the everyday owner due to the implementation of all the high end technology. Besides I would rather spend the time with my kids.

[jeff_wisnia]

Yep, common sense isn't very common anymore.....

(One of my earlier sig lines...)

Jeff

[Steve Barker]

and your point is?

[Steve Barker]

i still put the cans and filter in the garbage. Where the hell else do you think they go? I do recycle the used oil. I pour it on my gravel driveways to control dust. Just like the county does.

s

[Van Chocstraw]

Yes, today they are full of plastic covers under the hood. Remove those and it is generally the same vehicle as 50 years ago. Engine, plugs, wires, radiator, oil filter, generator etc......same stuff. Just different controls and computerized. I still can be seen in my garage maintaining my car, truck and lawn tractors. I kept up with the technology where most did not but some did.

[Van Chocstraw]

You can still buy oil, filters and auto parts and do it yourself. No, We NEVER poured oil down the drain. I pour it back into the same containers and places take it that way for recycle or burning. You can buy a computer code decoder (I have one) and analyze your own problems and fix them. It's still not rocket science. If you can build your own computers you can fix your car too.

[sligoNoSPAMjoe]

You won't see me do it because I do mine in the garage usually with the door shut.

[clare]

Not completely true. MANY cars today are almost impossible to change the filter on without a hoist (and still almost impossible then). To change the filter without spashing oil everywhere is a real challenge.

Also, environmental laws make it harder to dispose of the oil and filter.

All of the above. Mainly: Most people today a) don't know how to service their car (or anything else) b) don't have the tools/facilties to service their cars c) don't want to get their hands dirty

[clare]

Absolutel, most definitely yes. Todays WORST cars are more reliable than the best cars 35 years ago..

When did you last hear of a car going in for a ring and valve job? Used to be very common before 65000 miles. Now the vast majority will run 200,000 miles without being opened up Carb overhauls every couple of years were commonplace. Today's fuel injection is almost totally maintenance free. You needed to change plugs, points and condenser every year. Today's electronic ignition is basically a lifetime system. Spark plugs last

100,00 miles or more. A muffler and tail pipe was doing good to last 18 months - today many cars go their whole life - 200,000 miles or more on the original pipes.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

My 26 year old daughter changes her own snowtires and has done other work on her old car. Like many of her generation, she spent big money to buy a brand new car - and all service is included for the first six years. Most people don't drive cars long enough after they are off warranty to make owner mainenance ascompelling as it was in years past.

For basic mainenance they actually take LESS tools. You don't need a tach/dwell meter or timing light to tune them up. You don't need fealer guages to adjust points or valves - and plugs are not regapped any more. Disk brakes do not require adjustment so the adjuster tools are not needed either. You can do the basic maintenenace on today's cars with a basic set of hand tools and possibly the tool to release the clips on the fuel line to change the fuel filter. An OBD2 scanner to check codes is very reasonably priced.

And you can buy decent quality tools for a lot fewer hours of work today (or at least last year) than 30 years ago.

[clare]

What county? Engine oil on the road has been forbidden FEDERALLY in both Canada and the USA for over 20 years.

[ransley]

Then you had points and plugs that never lasted, carburators that could be adjusted, 70000 mile starters, alternators and crappy manufacturing, Now its different , but I never use a dealer unless its under warranty. I see you dont know much about cars or how or where to fix them.

[Limp Arbor]

How about spending some time with the kids teaching them how to change the oil?

[Steve Daniels]

On Fri, 8 May 2009 09:40:33 -0700 (PDT), against all advice, something compelled Molly Brown , to say:

My car ('04 Audi TT) has a 10,000 mile service interval. See how long a '68 Anything would run if you ignored it for ten thousand miles.

Cars are *way* better than they used to be.

[usenet-659f31de7f953aeb]

The whole "everybody was in their driveways working on their cars" is a fallacy too; *most* people weren't/aren't competent with a wrench and *most* people have always taken their cars to Cooter's Garage or Goober's Gas or whatever. Nothing new there.

For those of us who have wrenched on our cars and still do, here's why you never see us do it: modern cars need so little attention, and what they need can be done so easily, that we have it all wrapped up and working on a cold beer by the time someone drives by and wonder why we're not out there working on our cars!

[Molly Brown]

=93My 26 year old daughter changes her own snowtires and has done other work on her old car. Like many of her generation, she spent big money to buy a brand new car - and all service is included for the first six years. Most people don't drive cars long enough after they are off warranty to make owner mainenance ascompelling as it was in years past. =93

I don=92t know your daughter so I cannot say anything about her but as far as people in general goes from what I heard on MSNBC most people trade in their car before the warranty expires and buy a new car but with the payments of the old car added on to the price of the new car and they keep repeating this every few years. What eventually happens is that they go further and further into debt as the years go by. This doesn=92t seem like a smart thing to do.

For basic maintenance they actually take LESS tools.

I wasn=92t referring to basic maintenance. A lot of people I know used to even rebuild their own engines. Now you need a whole encyclopedia of tools to do the same thing.

=93And you can buy decent quality tools for a lot fewer hours of work today (or at least last year) than 30 years ago.=94

If by decent quality you mean made in U.S.A. with a lifetime warranty then I think you=92re wrong. It cost just as many hours of work as before to purchase them. If you=92re referring to the junk made in China as decent than you have a poor appreciation of quality.

[Red Green]

jeff_wisnia wrote in news:VoqdnexUA8l0FpnXnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

Reminds me of something I heard just the other day...

"You're the smartest Down Syndrome person I know".