Apartment building fire

Ive talked to many many contractors, the only ones that I find that know what they are doing 100% are the fire restoration companies, I think it depends on the type of fire and how much it affected to determine what you need.

Reply to
ransley
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Thats kinda of what I am seeing also

Reply to
ransley

..

100% true.
Reply to
ransley

I want it fixed right the right way so there are no issues when its

95-100 outside with 90% humidity, Its a 14 unit with 4 badly affected by smoke, only one burnt, 2 hallways, and 4 that have had smoke on walls and its inside the walls opened up, I get code upgrade on the insurance and have a fire restoration co. Im wondering if smoke that traveled in the floors and walls will affect more than I can see or smell now, since now the heat is off and its maybe 45f inside. 4 units are still rented but one tenant moved from the as she said smoke smell was comming up through the radiator pipe openings, [what going to happen when its 90f- 100f and 90% humidity?

I see what you are saying and agree, its a real mess, I had someone just walk through yesterday and they got a headache and said they never get headaches, its from the smoke smell.

Floors are oak, and vinyl in kitchens, Can sanding oak cure whats underneath that the smoke went through the ceilings? And will Polyurethane keep out that smoke smell? What I am seeing is that smoke damage is 90% - 95% of the problem and job cost.

Yes all that you have said I see as true, what a mess I have alot to learn on my first fire. Its good I have code upgrades so I will be calling the citys inspectors alot to be sure we do it right, but how do you Know, if you open a wall several apartments away and test it with a rubber sponge and its dark, that smoke that will not smell later comming in the fixtures and outlets etc? How do you test and know when you are ok and to stop? I cant risk loosing tenants because they complain about smoke next year when its 90f outside and the job is closed and finished. What I do now will determine everything of the future.

Reply to
ransley

m...

They are in business to make money and save. What they are offering isnt what it will cost to do the job and it will be payments and they are late. its not going to be easy for me. Small claims are different but a fire is something new to me and most.

Reply to
ransley

But if it comes through all openings like switches, sockets, fixtures, then what you are saying is the wall has to be opened up, so then the studs can be sealed with primer. its basicly gut everything where there is smoke inside walls?

Reply to
ransley

I agree , but all the apartments were redone in 07 to like new, so its really a pain in the ass this job.

Reply to
ransley

Everybody got out ok. True smoke damage isnt like a flood, smoke goes everywhere up and around and just continues. The biggest mistake is getting someone that doesnt do a complete job besause they dont understand fires, and next year I would have many units un rentable from lingering smoke, when the job is closed, I cant go back to the insurance co if that happens.

Reply to
ransley

Things air out, but closed walls?

Reply to
ransley

I think you should talk to a bunch of pros, who do fire restoration for a living, and try to figure out what is likely to happen.

It seems only one or two people here have addressed your particular question.

Reply to
mm

I have talked to pros, but here I have gotten good info that confirms what they say. A contractor wants more work, everyone here has no motive for bs. It all helps to put it all in perspective.

Reply to
ransley

Gang related, a gasolene bomb, and they went for the wrong guy the cops said. So it spread real fast at 330 am on the coldest night of the year, near 0. 47 doors and windows the fire dept busted out,

Reply to
ransley

Yeow! Is this California? No wait, not at 0 degrees. California is what I think when I hear the words "gang related" although I realize gangs are everywhere these days. I read some Mexican gang has a nationwide dialup & deliver heroin franchise and that they solict new customers in the parking lots of drug rehab clinics. They use beater cars and burner phones and never carry more than one delivery at a time. Even when they catch them, they can't make trafficking stick because of the small amounts. Forfeiting a beater Cheby and a $10 throw-away phone is not much of a penalty. When they do manage to get themselves jailed, they recruit new members for their crew.

Sorry about your loss. You can do everything right and still get nailed. Who said there's no such that as luck? There's definitely good AND bad luck! I went through a subzero fire. What the fire didn't burn, the fireman chopped, drowned and froze. But this was a rowhouse and I understand the need to keep fires contained quickly, especially on windy nights, before they spread to other houses. I've known of whole blocks of rowhouses that went up in flames from a single ignition point. When it was all over it started snowing. It's an eerie feeling watching moonlit snowflakes falling into what's left of your living room. )-:

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

There's a much, much worse word you can hear from your adjuster: Coinsurance. I discovered that if you do not insure for the promised limit of insurance your become a co-insurer when a loss occurs. You get to share in the payout burden with the insurance company in paying part of the loss. Policies typical require you insure to at least 90% of the property's value.

For example a $240,000 value at the time of loss multiplied by 80% coinsurance (a factor of .80) equals $192,000.

$160,000 limits at the time of loss divided by 192,000, the limit required (at the typical 90% coinsurance rate required in your contract) equals a coinsurance penalty factor of .833.

$100,000 amount of loss multiplied by the .833 penalty factor equals $83,300

$83,300 minus the $2,000 deductible equals $81,300

The insurance company pays $81,300. You pay the remainder.

The math has most likely got an error in it, but anyone who's suffered a loss in the last few years who hasn't substantially upgraded their policy has likely run into this. It's very common in times of rapidly rising housing values. "You know about coinsurance? were the first words out of my adjustor's mouth *after* the fire. )-:

-- Bobby G.

Reply to
Robert Green

...

Nope... Landlord is NEVER responsible for damages to tenant's contents unless some sort of intentional action took place -- i.e. arson, vandalism, etc. AND the tenant has absolute proof that the landlord or landlord's agent is responsible... Just having a suspicion or "feeling" that the landlord is at fault is not enough... Learn how civil liability works... Most nuisance claims are low balled and closed with $10k-$20k for "personal injury" along with a gag order for accepting the money to make things go away and keep businesses from having their reputations damaged by having records of many lawsuits being filed against them...

As far as finding someone for the various insurance companies to blame and attempt to reclaim their collective losses from (all of the tenants will not be covered by the same insurer unless it is _THAT_ small of a town), well they can try, but that sort of thing happens in a glacial scale of time, maybe in three to five years will a civil case like that see the inside of a court room...

At any rate, the FIRE insurance coverage that a commercial property owner carries is for the structure ONLY... Tenant's furnishings are their own responsibility to insure... If some sort of negligence is suspected there is general liability coverage that any prudent business owner/operator would carry to cover those types of losses... Common coverage numbers I heard tossed out there for a property the size of the one being discussed in this topic would be around $2 million of coverage...

As far as "going after the owner of the building" and your sentiments of "especially if it is this [their] fault" ROFL... A landlord can not be omniscient, as long as malfeasence or gross negligence can not be proven, good luck at pinning it on any one person... Things fall apart and fail suddenly, accidents happen, the world is random -- something installed

30 years ago before ransley every owned the building might have been at fault, so should be be held accountable for not stripping everything down and rebuilding when he bought the place ? NO... That is why insurance exists...

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

Ransley if this is such a concern, and you have that much air movement inside the walls of your building, open up the bottom 6" to 8" of wall around the perimeter of every room and firestop every penetration no matter how small with the intumescent goop around every wire and pipe... If no air can move through the walls no odors can move either...

The only concern I would have would be how raunchy things would get if you had some sort of a leak in one of the smoke damaged units down the line and you hadn't gutted and encapsulated the non-damaged non-removable structural elements that have smoke smell in them now...

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

Define "re-done"...

Gutted to the studs and rebuilt out ?

Refinished floors, painted walls, redid kitchens ?

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

The windows I understand, as the fire department needs to vent the heat and smoke before they clear the scene to make sure that the fire is actually put out and won't flashover again after they leave...

But the doors ? Did this building not have a knox lockbox for keys ?

Seems like something you would want to look into...

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

I don't have experience with smoke damaged wood flooring, but I have seen a burnt-out area in a building where I used to work have the concrete floor under the carpeting sandblasted and epoxy painted to seal it in case of some future water issue...

What sort of fire alarm system did this building have installed prior to the arson fire incident ? Might be worth some extra money spent on your part to upgrade that even if it wouldn't be covered by anyone as you wouldn't want to have any issues down the road...

Without knowing more about the layout of the building and where the fire damage occurred I really can't offer specific advice as to what to do... It all depends on what has to be opened up and where... But realistically like I said before, you will probably never be in a position to open up everything ever again unless another fire happens... This is the time to do any upgrades you ever fantasized about doing as there will never be a better time...

As to the tenants you have remaining in the building, have you considered offering them reduced rental rates until the damages can be repaired -- some rental revenue is better than none if they decide to leave... Also setting up plastic containment areas and a "sally port" between the occupied area and the damaged area in any common access hallways then scrubbing down the occupied areas even though they don't appear to be dirty would help any odors dissipate faster... Do not allow any workers or people coming to examine the fire scene to use the same entrance to the building as the remaining occupants, they will track the dirt and odor into the area where people have to live -- use another entry even if it is inconvenient to access (such as having to go downstairs to access a basement door and come back up through the building where it would have been much shorter to come in directly through the front door)...

I don't know what your situation is tenant wise, a lot of people who have the means to move after a fire do so because of the hassles of having to live elsewhere during the rebuilding phase and a fire loss is one of the things in most leases that can allow a tenant to break the lease without paying any penalty or rent after the date of the fire, so many apartment renters will do just that and only deal with moving once...

~~ Evan

Reply to
Evan

Yes gangs, in Chicago, just a few can ruin a neighborhood, or whole town or maybe our country. They sure are ruining their home country Mexico.

Reply to
ransley

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