Alarm System Contacts

[krw]

You mean, like the Pope?

You mean like the Catholic Church?

Whatever you do, don't tell them you're a Druid!

[G. Morgan]

Yup, isn't he an ex-Nazi?

Yup.

Oh, good one! I think I'm gonna go with "Pagan" next time.

[HeyBub]

Most Christians harken to the dogma that the leader of the Church is God's agent on earth ("Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." Matt 18:18).

There are more Catholics in Mexico City today than Baptists who have ever lived.

That's odd... Mormons hold that they ARE Jewish - and they want all Jews to become Mormons.

[dpb]

On 5/30/2011 11:25 PM, [e-mail] wrote: ...

Allusion too obtuse; whatever you're after, I don't grok...

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[G. Morgan]

That passage is not tied to a church leader.

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Dealing With Sin in the Church

15 ?If your brother or sister[b] sins,[c] go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ?every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.?[d] 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18 ?Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be[e] bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be[f] loosed in heaven.

19 ?Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20 For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.?

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IMO, the only 'pure' Christianity left is the Orthodox Christians in Ethiopia. They were the only ones to escape the Roman, Papal, and King James' re-writes of history.

There are more Mexicans in TX that have ever lived in Mexico City.

First time I said it the two looked at each other, one turned back to me and said 'Okay, have a nice evening". The last 2 times I was a little rude and just said it, added a "good luck" and shut the door.

I feel sorry for them, many of them don't want to do it. I knew a "Mormon" (he was my beer-drinking buddy!). To please his father and for whatever else he was threatened with, he agreed to go be a missionary.

He was assigned to Bulgaria. He lasted about 3 months, got the shit beat out of him on a regular basis. Hey, but at least his Dad was happy to 'save face' in the eyes of the "church".

[G. Morgan]

I know all about it, I had a friend who was brainwashed as a child. He told me more about your "church" than any of your door-to-door missionaries even know.

I know the "official" version, and the real deal.

I suspect you are not an 'elder', thus not privy to the financial goals of the corp.

[G. Morgan]

One more thing....

Is that all you have to say after I ripped your whole belief system apart?

[G. Morgan]

psst....

The poop was from a bull.

[krw]

Liberalization. Going away from the teachings of Christ. New age gobbledygook. That's why she left the Methodists; they left her first.

[krw]

Don't do it! A friend made that mistake when they woke him up the morning after a college finals bender. He became their personal mission. He *had* to be saved.

[dpb]

Well, not sure there's a real departure there or not...Christ was a pretty radical kinda' guy at the time... :)

I'm only slightly to the right of Genghis Khan as the saying goes, and don't care that much about the central office direction either but out here in the hinterlands individual congregations pretty much go their own way; one of the features of the Methodist organization is that there isn't a great deal of requirement for strict conformance to some set of initiatives.

AFAIK, the official doctrine hasn't actually been changed much (altho I don't go and read it regularly).

But, as I said earlier, everybody has to have their own interpretation and do what they think bestest...I'm too traditionalist to bother to go find somewhere different so just keep on keepin' on at same ol' place where went as a kid since came back home after 30 year hiatus. Of course, stuff has changed here demographically to the point that it's now minority majority and the congregation is dwindling owing to simply a reduction in the candidate population. I suppose it'll probably about last my duration altho the smaller second congregation closed their doors earlier this summer.

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[krw]

"Radical" isn't a constant. Obummer calls Repubicans radicals.

They don't in the East. It's their way or the highway. She chose the latter, as did a rather large percentage of the congregation.

It is a regional thing, sure, but the central church allows it. She went from there to a rather large congregational church (held five services on Sunday, two in a movie theater, complete with popcorn and coffee ;), then to S. Babtist (where she was brought up) after we moved to the South.

[dpb]

...

Well, I can't imagine a serious S Baptist _ever_ agreeing w/ Methodist doctrine to begin with, but... :) (I certainly don't much cotton to some of their precepts from the other direction so it's pretty much a dead heat :) )

That description sounds like a particular congregational thing as much or more the entire denomination's change in actual doctrine. Since pastors are assigned by Conference; all it takes is a new man in charge and a congregation can have a different flavor the next week after the previous has left. That has the potential to upset the traditional in both directions. :)

As noted previously, I don't believe there's much change in actual theology as stated in the official doctrine since the time of the Wesleys.

The rest is simply trappings around the basic beliefs; there were probably other UMC congregations in the area that were much more traditional at the time if it was a sizable metro area.

But, need to retire from this; this is just _way_ too far off topic, even for a reasoned-tone discussion.... :)

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[krw]

She was a SB when she was a kid, living in Texas, then again after >forty years, after moving back South. No, the Methodist church she was a member of did a hard left turn, after most of the congregation made it perfectly clear they wanted to go "straight".

Yes, the congregation had *no* choice. She, and many in the congregation showed them that, yes, they did have a choice.

Theology without practice isn't worth much. She didn't join a Unitarian Universalists church (which, we got married in, BTW) but she might just as well have, after the shift.

Nope. She *was* at one of the more conservative of the churches but it was under new management. Since there is no input from the congregation, she and a *bunch* of others left.

You've *got* to be kidding. ;-)

[dpb]

On 5/31/2011 11:09 PM, [e-mail] wrote: ...

...

Well, I'll make one last comment.

Under the UM Book of Discipline there is a church council every member of the church is automatically a member of this council. Decisions on changing a local church mission direction such as this are made by a vote in such a council. So, there is a mechanism to have a say/make a choice.

Now, often only a very small minority of the congregation members will bother to show up and make their opinions known and cast their vote, but that's no the same thing as having no choice.

Whether that happened in this instance or not I have no way of knowing, of course, but there is a process that gives local congregations quite a lot of leeway; it isn't absolutely forced from the outside w/ no recourse. OTOH, while I fail to understand why, it seems that many are often more pleased to not participate but then complain when the decision didn't go to their liking.

Pastor/Parish Committee can even recommend a replacement for a pastor that is not in communion w/ the majority of the congregation or even reject a new pastor appointment (albeit this is rare, it has and does happen on occasion).

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[HeyBub]

Uh, sort of. The Catholic Church holds otherwise because it is the Church, as an institution, that alone has the ability and authority to interpret scripture. The non-Catholic tradition holds that the individual (guided by the Holy Spirit) has the authority to interpret scripture any damned way he pleases. Some of the latter hold with your view.

Uh, no. Judah was one of the tribes of the Israelites. It was the larger group that took on the name "Jew" (from the predominate tribe).

The Book of Mormon holds that early residents of the Americas are descended from the tribe of Joseph.

[krw]

They gave them *no* choice. Something like half the congregation left and they were having problems paying their bills afterward. Tough.

Vote? There was no vote.

They had to pick from three or four pastors. One they interviewed one (and had them as a guest pastor) they had to decide up or down on that pastor. They could not come back to him/her later. The third was automatic. They didn't choose which ones to interviews, either. *Very* poorly done.

[krw]

So your position is that the Catholics aren't Christian?

[G. Morgan]

I didn't say that.

Of course they are.

[krw]

Your position WRT LDS is strange, given that.