Air Conditioner- fix or place?

Around here we call those hard start kits.

Reply to
trader_4
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1) I've repeatedly said what needs to happen before anyone adds refrigerant to the system. I guess no one listens to me. 2) After I hear that my suggestion was taken, I'll comment on refrigerant charge. I've worked on several systems that actually were low.

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

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Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I already did give my hard won wisdom, but no one appears to care. Nothing to do with refrigerant, at this point.

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

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Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Soft start is needed for some motors. But, not ACR systems.

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

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Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Then tell me why softstart kits for ac are listed and sold everywhere? Generally installed when the compressor is on too long cable.

Emerson makes one that is highly recommended. SureStart is used on a lot of systems for generator and off-grid operation as well.

Reply to
clare

I've been doing AC work since before 1995,and got my EPA "freon certificate" in 1995. In that time, I've never heard of a "soft start kit" for AC or refrigeration systems. If such a thing exists, I've never heard of it. So, if they are listed and sold every where, why have I never seen or heard of one?

Here is a chance to help me out. Send a URL to a couple of these, and give me examples of a couple of parts houses that carry them. I am willing to learn some thing new.

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

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Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I hope you're just trying to be cute here over Clare using the term "soft start kit" instead of the more common "hard start" term. If you google, you will see that some people and manufacturers refer to them as "soft start" too. And if that is in fact your point, wouldn't it be better for the benefit of the group here to just say that, instead of creating more confusion?

Reply to
trader_4

I'm being very literal. I've heard of soft start kits for motors, if the rapid start is too rough on bearings, pulleys, belts, etc. But never heard of such for AC/R. Also never seen an ad for soft start kit.

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

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Reply to
Stormin Mormon

Here's one:

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I guess I'm confused now too. I agree that the common term that I've always used is a "hard start kit". And it was added to a compressor that was having trouble starting, tripping the breaker on start-up, etc. They appear to be the far more common type. I had one put on my old AC, got another 15 years out of it.

But then Emerson and some others have these "soft start kits". From a brief look, it seems the soft start kits may be targeted to reducing the initial current, by starting it more gently and that they learn, are more expensive. So, maybe they are good for folks that need to run an AC off a generator? On the other hand, the common hard start kit is there just to get the compressor that's having difficulty starting going, thereby preventing the breaker from tripping. That's what it looks like to me at least.

Reply to
trader_4

Soft start is usually associated with 3 phase motors. They bump them over with a reduced voltage before hitting them with the full voltage. It was a common thing in the old disk drives when they were the size of a refrigerator. The AC thing is generally called a hard start. It is just a capacitor that goes across the run capacitor and drops out after the motor is up to speed. You get a bigger kick at start up and the time it takes to drop out the start capacitor is shorter. They are thrown at old compressors that can be cranky to start but I suspect some may just have bad capacitors to start with. Mormon is right, a lot of old compressors do have insulation break down as they age. This causes increased current draw and why old refrigerators will trip GFCIs. It is actually shorting to ground.

Reply to
gfretwell

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www.hypereng,com
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Schneider AltiStart 01 is a comonly stocked soft start unit also recommended for HVAC compressors.(and large air handlers)

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Danfoss is another supplier:

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Numerous HVAC contractors in our area are using one or the other, particularly for off-grid or rural applications whre getting a heavier (stiffer) service is not feasible. These things restrict startup surge to 2 or 3 times running current, instead of up to 10 times.

Reply to
clare

Stormy needs to get out more and read more. There is a big difference, conceptually, between hard and soft start, and soft start IS used on HVAC. Not terribly widely used - but enough to be called a "common" application. And yes,Stormy WILL try to rattle my chain - pretty much regardless what I say. Sometimes I return the favour.

Reply to
clare

Single stage application of soft start technology is at least 10 years old already, and can be a solution for starting compressors and pumps and fans where the power supply is not "stiff" enough to handle full power across-the-line starting. It is also used to reduce starting shock. It replaces thermal/ magnetic reduced voltage starters.

Reply to
clare

Let's recap. Stated problem:

My Carrier AC worked fine until about 4 years ago, when the compressor

Stormin:

Clare:

"I'd be trying a "soft start kit" first."

Really? A soft start kit? I'm with Stormin and Gfre on this one. If an AC unit starts having trouble starting, tripping the breaker, a hard start kit is what you typically put on it.

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Exactly what my AC was doing. Put a hard start kit on it and got another 15 years of use out of it. But then Clare says he doesn't read my posts so I guess he'll continue to live in his own little world.

Reply to
trader_4

Anyone here ever see one of those on a residential AC unit? Not me..... And who said needing a heavier service was the problem? The stated problem was an AC unit that previously worked OK, but then was having trouble starting, tripping the breaker. Sounds like a classic hard start kit application to me..... And the hard start kit is $40, not $150 for the soft start gizmo. The fact that the "torque limiter" has DIN mounting alone should tell you something......

Reply to
trader_4

I'd never seen any thing like this, where I am (western NY). Thank you. Never know, I may need some thing like this, one day.

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

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Reply to
Stormin Mormon

From my vantage point, Clare has tended to sound a bit over assured. Once in a while I question his confidence.

- . Christopher A. Young learn more about Jesus .

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Reply to
Stormin Mormon

I worked in industry and not home usage. At work we had several large motors using the 'soft start' devices. I sort of thought of them as a one shot inverter. That is they are designed to slowly start up a motor so less inrush current is used as they ramp up to speed. After they reached full speed then a motor contactor would pull in and connect the motor directly to the main lines.

That is differant than the hard start crcuits where a motor is hard to start.

Reply to
Ralph Mowery

Maybe you guys should start your own thread. My problem is different than yours.

Reply to
buddygenki

It sounds like a handy device for folks off the grid where they don't have a 50 KVA transformer on the pole out front to kick over a big motor. The reason a "hard start" kit keeps the breaker from tripping is not that it reduces the inrush current (it may even be higher). It is that it kicks off the motor faster and keeps that inrush inside the HACR breaker's trip curve.

Reply to
gfretwell

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