On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 5:02:51 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:
Let's do some math.
"Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the floor.(snip)
The owner offered to repair the damage for half price, around $700."
2 X $700 = $1400
$1400/(around 20) = around $70/tile before the discount (Wow!)
"The whole" (original) "job was just under $900." Can we assume no discount?
None was mentioned.
(just under $900)/(around $70/tile) = just under, around 12.86 tiles repaired
as the original job.
I think my math is correct, but I hope not. 900/(2*700/20)= 12.86
$70/tile for a repair job? As I said earlier...Wow!
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 10:14:50 PM UTC-4, dgk wrote:
The tiles don't match. I don't know if it's just because of the
photo angle, or maybe it's slight and when you're looking at them
it looks better, but from the pic, looks like a substantial difference.
Likely a moot point anyway, because at this point, I'd just replace
the whole thing.
In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 06 Sep 2015 22:14:41 -0400, dgk
Wow. Save these pictures. If you cancel t he payment and the credit
card company backs you up, and he sues you, or if you sue him, you're
going to need a floor authority, a tile installation tradesman to
testify for you or at least write you and affidavit that he saw the
damage, or at least the pictures (I can see that the 2nd, 3rd, and maybe
the 4th row back are all uplifted ** and that the repairs were done
improperly and best if he knows what can make this sort of things
happen and can say what make s it happen and why it shouldn't have been
done that way.
The proof seems like it shoudl be in the pudding, in that it turned out
so bad, but judges want testimony or an affidavite from someone
experienced in the field. On letterhead stationery or maybe on their
invoice. But it can't just say, "Tiles dislodged during repair."
Everyone knows that. It has to say that the fault, the mistake, the
error is the original guys's failure to do the job correctly. It
shoudl take into consideration the original installation of the tiles
that got upplifted. Someone suggested it was all done wrong, but the
house is several years old.... I forget if the problem he created with
these new tiles is the same problem he was fixing on the tiles he was
fixing. If so, that's bad for you legally and morally. The counter
argument will be that I was there to fix N ties for this very problem,
and these new ones woudl have developed the same problem
Even though you only paid him 900, that doesn't mean you are limited to
that amount when you sue. What you are limited by is how much damage
he did. Someone can do a 10 dollar repair to a car and in doing so can
negligently set fire to a 30 thousand dollar car, and owe the owner
30,000. Businessmen have to consider this when they set their prices
and when they decide if they know how to do a job or not.
The contract you signed might be a problem, but I don't think it's
enough to make you lose the case.
**And in this case being uplifted isn't good.
If you can dislodge from one corner or in front of the closet, I'd
repair what I have there and use new tiles to make some corner, or edge,
or doorway out of a contrasting color or pattern. It's not likely but
maybe you can buy more tiles just like these.
And I'd go back to the real estate agent and tell her what a bad job he
And can't you bring some of the adhesive to the guy writng the etter,
and won't any guy worth his salt konw what it is when he see it and
whetehr it was the wrong thing to use? Or is that bad for you? I
don't care if they did install it worng in the firrst place Maybe that
lessens your recovery but what this repairguy did was the proximate
cause of all your problems. Even if it had been installed wrong, you'd
been using it for years with ... no problem except the reason he was
there. Like I say, I don't know if that is related to your current
Thanks. I don't think that it's worth trying to fix the current mess.
I don't have any of the adhesive. I don't think I even saw the stuff.
I was working in another room when most of this was being done.
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 08 Sep 2015 08:35:15 -0400, dgk
The original adhesive is stuck to the orignal tiles, and whatever he
used is whatever is different and where he was working.
The same guy who testifies for you or writes you the affidavit can
problably tell what each is by looking at it.
In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:06:03 -0400, dgk
No it doesn't. The ones that popped up, including iiuc there are broken
ones, have plenty of the original adhesive on them. (Plus the floor
underneath the ones that popped up has adhesive) And they are probably
the very same ones that have some of the new injected stuff. The new
stuff might still be softer than the old stuff, or bubblier if it's
something that swells, or it might be in the valleys of the old
adhesive, or maybe there's some reason it would be at the edges of the
I haven't read the entire thread and all of the other responses etc.
But, by just looking at the photos, it looks to me that probably the whole
floor original tile job was defective -- maybe not enough adhesive, or
possibly moisture coming up through the concrete if it is a ground level
slab, or whatever. It looks like the other original tiles were already in
danger of coming up and when they replaced and re-attached or glued the new
tiles adjacent to the old ones, just the slightest amount of expansion or
contraction due to a temperature change or whatever caused the
already-defective original tiles to start popping up. Looks like you need
the whole floor to be re-done and that trying to only fix the tiles that you
knew were loose wasn't the solution that you needed..
I am not sure that I would have the heart to ask for all of my money back
from the contractor who did the fix, but maybe just a partial refund since
whatever he did didn't work -- probably due to the orignal floor tile job
being defective. By a partial refund, at least he wouldn't take a total hit
after spending time and money trying to fix your original problem. Maybe he
should have known that the other original tiles were also defectively
installed and may also start to pop up once the part that he fixed was done,
but I am not sure that he could have predicted that. He did spend time and
money and he showed up and did the job. I think it's just a problem with
the whole original floor tile job.
Only one floor but it's Florida. It's possible that the tiles were
done badly, but all the houses around me were done by the same builder
at the same time, and none of my neighbors has had this happen. I
think a partial refund is probably fairest.
There are a *LOT* of jack-leg hacks in the construction/remodeling
trades. When you have your floors redone, make sure they use
Schluter-DITRA uncoupling membrane.
| There are a *LOT* of jack-leg hacks in the construction/remodeling
| trades. When you have your floors redone, make sure they use
| Schluter-DITRA uncoupling membrane.
I happen to be going to a job this week where that
method was used. 6 months ago. Grout is cracking
and at least one tile is loose. I don't know whether
the job was done right, but I find it hard to believe
there's any good reason to float a tile floor on a
sheet of plastic when it can be done with time-
tested thinset on concrete board.
In this case he thinks the subfloor is concrete.
So what are you recommending? That he should maybe
fill in the loose gaps with sand mix, then float a
plastic-sheet-job and raise the whole floor by 1/2"
to 3/4"? That doesn't sound like a plan to me.
There may be hacks in the construction trade,
but it doesn't help that new, untested, "high
tech" replacement methods keep being cooked
up to replace doing things the right way.
| Number 1 likes it...
"Number 1"? I've never heard of whoever it is.
Should I have?
The job I need to fix has the heated pad. The
heat is poor and uneven. Tiles are coming loose.
Grout is cracking. As I said before, I didn't see
the job done, so I don't know whether it was
done properly, but just from looking at the pad
I can see that the tiles end up standing on little
mortar feet. The floor as a sheet can't be very
strong, given the waffle design. Yet it's floating
as a sheet. And how could even a bad install
have affected the heat so much? I found that
when touching different areas the tiles varied
from cold to room temperature on a cold day.
If the wires are built in I'd expect the heating
function to be almost failsafe.
With concrete board the floor becomes
a single slab of mortar. I've also installed heating
wires between concrete board and tile, embedded
in thinset, and it worked well.
The selling points mentioned on that page are
not convincing. "Even if your house shifts, your
tiles won't". They're implying that a mortar bed
or thinset on concrete board install will crack, which
is not true. They also make a claim about being
waterproof. Waterproof is a main feature of tile.
It doesn't need a plastic pad underneath for that.
If water gets through it's going to do so around
the edges, under the basboard. A plastic waffle isn't
going to help that.
I don't say that I know it to be a bad method. I'm
just saying it's not time-tested. It's a private (no
doubt patented) invention that logically has no
selling point that I can see, and raises questions
about the integrity/crack-resistance of the final slab.
My suspicion is that, like many things, it's becoming
popular because it's quicker and easier than concrete
I imagine lots of official people will also highly
recommend the new plastic plumbing hoses. They're
easier than soldering copper. Will they still be holding
in 20 years? There's really no way to know. I doubt
that's a consideration for most plumbers. It's legal. It's
easy. So they use it.
There's already a problem with corrugate stainless
steel flexible gas hose. Lightning strikes blow holes in
it. Yet it's being used throughout houses. It's easy.
The whole thing makes me curious
about what kind of lobbying happens between the makers
of these products and the state building commissions
who approve them.
I'm wary of the constant flow of new inventions that
may seem fancy and get marketed heavily, but won't
necessarily stand the test of time.
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