Adjacent tiles lift after repair work. Is it malpractice?

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 5:02:51 PM UTC-4, trader_4 wrote:

Let's do some math.
"Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the floor.(snip) The owner offered to repair the damage for half price, around \$700."
2 X \$700 = \$1400 \$1400/(around 20) = around \$70/tile before the discount (Wow!)
"The whole" (original) "job was just under \$900." Can we assume no discount? None was mentioned.
(just under \$900)/(around \$70/tile) = just under, around 12.86 tiles repaired as the original job.
I think my math is correct, but I hope not. 900/(2*700/20)= 12.86
\$70/tile for a repair job? As I said earlier...Wow!
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I think this is a case that is screaming for the facts to be known. Something is not right in the OP, even if we try to parse out the language.
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On Sun, 6 Sep 2015 14:41:06 -0700, "taxed and spent"

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On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 10:14:50 PM UTC-4, dgk wrote:

The tiles don't match. I don't know if it's just because of the photo angle, or maybe it's slight and when you're looking at them it looks better, but from the pic, looks like a substantial difference. Likely a moot point anyway, because at this point, I'd just replace the whole thing.
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In alt.home.repair, on Sun, 06 Sep 2015 22:14:41 -0400, dgk

Wow. Save these pictures. If you cancel t he payment and the credit card company backs you up, and he sues you, or if you sue him, you're going to need a floor authority, a tile installation tradesman to testify for you or at least write you and affidavit that he saw the damage, or at least the pictures (I can see that the 2nd, 3rd, and maybe the 4th row back are all uplifted ** and that the repairs were done improperly and best if he knows what can make this sort of things happen and can say what make s it happen and why it shouldn't have been done that way.
The proof seems like it shoudl be in the pudding, in that it turned out so bad, but judges want testimony or an affidavite from someone experienced in the field. On letterhead stationery or maybe on their invoice. But it can't just say, "Tiles dislodged during repair." Everyone knows that. It has to say that the fault, the mistake, the error is the original guys's failure to do the job correctly. It shoudl take into consideration the original installation of the tiles that got upplifted. Someone suggested it was all done wrong, but the house is several years old.... I forget if the problem he created with these new tiles is the same problem he was fixing on the tiles he was fixing. If so, that's bad for you legally and morally. The counter argument will be that I was there to fix N ties for this very problem, and these new ones woudl have developed the same problem eventually/soon.
Even though you only paid him 900, that doesn't mean you are limited to that amount when you sue. What you are limited by is how much damage he did. Someone can do a 10 dollar repair to a car and in doing so can negligently set fire to a 30 thousand dollar car, and owe the owner 30,000. Businessmen have to consider this when they set their prices and when they decide if they know how to do a job or not.
The contract you signed might be a problem, but I don't think it's enough to make you lose the case.
**And in this case being uplifted isn't good.
If you can dislodge from one corner or in front of the closet, I'd repair what I have there and use new tiles to make some corner, or edge, or doorway out of a contrasting color or pattern. It's not likely but maybe you can buy more tiles just like these.
And I'd go back to the real estate agent and tell her what a bad job he did.
And can't you bring some of the adhesive to the guy writng the etter, and won't any guy worth his salt konw what it is when he see it and whetehr it was the wrong thing to use? Or is that bad for you? I don't care if they did install it worng in the firrst place Maybe that lessens your recovery but what this repairguy did was the proximate cause of all your problems. Even if it had been installed wrong, you'd been using it for years with ... no problem except the reason he was there. Like I say, I don't know if that is related to your current problem.
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Stumpy Strumpet
the bimbus
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wrote:

Thanks. I don't think that it's worth trying to fix the current mess. I don't have any of the adhesive. I don't think I even saw the stuff. I was working in another room when most of this was being done.
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In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 08 Sep 2015 08:35:15 -0400, dgk

The original adhesive is stuck to the orignal tiles, and whatever he used is whatever is different and where he was working.
The same guy who testifies for you or writes you the affidavit can problably tell what each is by looking at it.

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Stumpy Strumpet
the bimbus
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wrote:

Ah, but that means lifting up the repaired tiles. I'd really prefer to avoid doing that.
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In alt.home.repair, on Thu, 10 Sep 2015 00:06:03 -0400, dgk

No it doesn't. The ones that popped up, including iiuc there are broken ones, have plenty of the original adhesive on them. (Plus the floor underneath the ones that popped up has adhesive) And they are probably the very same ones that have some of the new injected stuff. The new stuff might still be softer than the old stuff, or bubblier if it's something that swells, or it might be in the valleys of the old adhesive, or maybe there's some reason it would be at the edges of the tile.
--

Stumpy Strumpet
the bimbus
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wrote:

Ok, thanks.
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In
I haven't read the entire thread and all of the other responses etc.
But, by just looking at the photos, it looks to me that probably the whole floor original tile job was defective -- maybe not enough adhesive, or possibly moisture coming up through the concrete if it is a ground level slab, or whatever. It looks like the other original tiles were already in danger of coming up and when they replaced and re-attached or glued the new tiles adjacent to the old ones, just the slightest amount of expansion or contraction due to a temperature change or whatever caused the already-defective original tiles to start popping up. Looks like you need the whole floor to be re-done and that trying to only fix the tiles that you knew were loose wasn't the solution that you needed..
I am not sure that I would have the heart to ask for all of my money back from the contractor who did the fix, but maybe just a partial refund since whatever he did didn't work -- probably due to the orignal floor tile job being defective. By a partial refund, at least he wouldn't take a total hit after spending time and money trying to fix your original problem. Maybe he should have known that the other original tiles were also defectively installed and may also start to pop up once the part that he fixed was done, but I am not sure that he could have predicted that. He did spend time and money and he showed up and did the job. I think it's just a problem with the whole original floor tile job.
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In

P.S. Is this a basement level of below grade level living space? The last photo looks like the floor isn't level and the old thinset didn't adhere to the concrete floor uderneath.
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Only one floor but it's Florida. It's possible that the tiles were done badly, but all the houses around me were done by the same builder at the same time, and none of my neighbors has had this happen. I think a partial refund is probably fairest.
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On 9/6/2015 3:57 PM, dadiOH wrote:

He has to kick back 25% to the realtor that recommended him.
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Maybe he is realtor's brother or kid?
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On 09/06/2015 02:21 PM, dgk wrote:

There are a *LOT* of jack-leg hacks in the construction/remodeling trades. When you have your floors redone, make sure they use Schluter-DITRA uncoupling membrane.
http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx
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On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 8:22:41 PM UTC-4, devnull wrote:

I had that once. It was painful, but antibiotic cured it.
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| There are a *LOT* of jack-leg hacks in the construction/remodeling | trades. When you have your floors redone, make sure they use | Schluter-DITRA uncoupling membrane. | | http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx
I happen to be going to a job this week where that method was used. 6 months ago. Grout is cracking and at least one tile is loose. I don't know whether the job was done right, but I find it hard to believe there's any good reason to float a tile floor on a sheet of plastic when it can be done with time- tested thinset on concrete board.
In this case he thinks the subfloor is concrete. So what are you recommending? That he should maybe fill in the loose gaps with sand mix, then float a plastic-sheet-job and raise the whole floor by 1/2" to 3/4"? That doesn't sound like a plan to me.
There may be hacks in the construction trade, but it doesn't help that new, untested, "high tech" replacement methods keep being cooked up to replace doing things the right way.
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On 9/6/2015 9:05 PM, Mayayana wrote:

Number 1 likes it...
http://makeitright.ca/products/approved-products/schluter-ditra-heat
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| Number 1 likes it... | | http://makeitright.ca/products/approved-products/schluter-ditra-heat
"Number 1"? I've never heard of whoever it is. Should I have?
The job I need to fix has the heated pad. The heat is poor and uneven. Tiles are coming loose. Grout is cracking. As I said before, I didn't see the job done, so I don't know whether it was done properly, but just from looking at the pad I can see that the tiles end up standing on little mortar feet. The floor as a sheet can't be very strong, given the waffle design. Yet it's floating as a sheet. And how could even a bad install have affected the heat so much? I found that when touching different areas the tiles varied from cold to room temperature on a cold day. If the wires are built in I'd expect the heating function to be almost failsafe.
With concrete board the floor becomes a single slab of mortar. I've also installed heating wires between concrete board and tile, embedded in thinset, and it worked well.
The selling points mentioned on that page are not convincing. "Even if your house shifts, your tiles won't". They're implying that a mortar bed or thinset on concrete board install will crack, which is not true. They also make a claim about being waterproof. Waterproof is a main feature of tile. It doesn't need a plastic pad underneath for that. If water gets through it's going to do so around the edges, under the basboard. A plastic waffle isn't going to help that.
I don't say that I know it to be a bad method. I'm just saying it's not time-tested. It's a private (no doubt patented) invention that logically has no selling point that I can see, and raises questions about the integrity/crack-resistance of the final slab.
My suspicion is that, like many things, it's becoming popular because it's quicker and easier than concrete board.
I imagine lots of official people will also highly recommend the new plastic plumbing hoses. They're easier than soldering copper. Will they still be holding in 20 years? There's really no way to know. I doubt that's a consideration for most plumbers. It's legal. It's easy. So they use it. There's already a problem with corrugate stainless steel flexible gas hose. Lightning strikes blow holes in it. Yet it's being used throughout houses. It's easy. It's "high-tech". The whole thing makes me curious about what kind of lobbying happens between the makers of these products and the state building commissions who approve them.
I'm wary of the constant flow of new inventions that may seem fancy and get marketed heavily, but won't necessarily stand the test of time.
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