I moved into a 34 year old single floor home.I think it's a concrete
slab. I knew that some tile work needed to be done since the ceramic
tiles (9 1/2 " squares) were lifting off the floor in the hallway
entrance. I hired a local contractor that came recommended by the real
estate agent. The contractor walked around the house hitting all the
tiles with a broomstick handle so he could tell the general state of
Sometime in the past, work had been done in the same area. Twelve
tiles had been removed and replaced with different tiles to form a
diamond pattern by the entrance hallway. It looked really nice and
left some used spare tiles that were in the garage.
The guys reset the tiles, using six of the spares to replace some of
the others that had cracked or been nicked over time. They injected
adhesive between some other tiles to make sure that they didn't come
up. The whole job was just under $900, paid by credit card.
The next morning I walked through the kitchen, heard a CRACK, and over
a 10 second period watched as tiles adjacent to the repaired tiles
lifted up and one even cracked in half and jumped about 6" into the
air. Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the
The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract
specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles, and
that if this type of thing happens it usually happens when the guys
are actually doing the work. The owner offered to repair the damage
for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't
guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and
suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo
the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all the
tiles that cracked.
I brought the tile that jumped into the air to a nearby tile store and
he says that he tile didn't have enough adhesive on it to begin with.
But the tile guys at Home Depot say that this should not have happened
and that the contractor injected too much adhesive under the tiles.
I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does happen to
even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow the
payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks think
that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the charge and
complain to the state business people.
So? Shit Happens or Bad Work?
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 2:21:30 PM UTC-4, dgk wrote:
This would seem to be the most relevant part:
"the contract specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles"
So, I don't think you're in a good position. I can see how you
could wind up in this position. If I read that contract, I would
think it means that while they are doing the work, removing the loose
tiles, etc, if an adjacent one get's damaged, they aren't responsible.
I would never expect that a day later a lot of them would be cracking.
It's weird, do you know what kind of adhesive they used? If you
had an empty tube of it and can show that it was unsuited to the
job, not recommended for use on tile, or something like that,
then I think you have a cause to get a refund. I guess the lesson here
is that if you have a lot of loose tiles, it shows the job wasn't done right
and it's better to just bite the bullet and redo the whole thing.
I say bad work . There is no reason for a tile repair to exert sideways
force on adjacent tiles . If he used an expanding type (like hydraulic
cement) mix to inject , he screwed up .
But I could be wrong , I only have about 25 years experience with flooring
systems , including tile , hardwood , vinyl , and carpet .
I think you are screwed. Good chance they did cause some of the damage,
but it sounds like it was a poor job to start with. I know it is
expensive, but I'd consider doing the whole floor over again, but with a
Given the contract wording, I don't think you have a chance in court.
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 6:54:41 PM UTC-4, Tony Hwang wrote:
Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the contract
are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In addition, accord
ing to the OP, the contract specifically states that the contractor is not
responsible for damage to nearby tiles.
This does not appear to be a warranty issue.
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 8:06:38 PM UTC-4, DerbyDad03 wrote:
ct are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In addition, acco
rding to the OP, the contract specifically states that the contractor is no
t responsible for damage to nearby tiles.
As I said before, I think his best shot is if by a miracle there
is an empty tube of whatever this adhesive was still around. I'd
be very curious to know what it was. And if it's something that
isn't appropriate for the application, then I think he's got a case
for a full refund. I think what happened obviously shows that it's
not the right product, but if it says it on the tube, that's a lot
better. Even with the disclaimer about not being responsible for
adjacent tiles, he might be able to win a case on the basis that
the real problem is the contractor was incompetent, that having a
big disaster like this is the result of using the wrong product, etc.
Say for example, a power washing company has a contract to do the
wood siding on your house that says something to the effect of not
being responsible for surface damage. Does that mean
they can use 5000 PSI, totally screw all the siding, then just walk away?
I don't think so, because they violated implicit standards of professional
competency. He might win a similar argument here and I'd probably
stop the payment.
Depends on your point of view . I see this as something caused by the repair
work . Having laid more than a few square feet of tile , I've *never* heard
of this happening . That contractor used something that expanded and put
some pretty extreme pressure on the adjacent tiles - possibly a hydraulic
cement meant to expand into cracks and seal them . I believe I'd hire an
expert witness and sue the ratbastard for a comlete new floor , since his
work caused damage . That contract is null and void if you can prove the guy
intentionally caused this problem in hopes of selling a big tile replacemwnt
job . And I think - from the facts as presented - that he did exactly that .
And I'd be going over that contract to see exactly what it says too ...
Sounds like he used an "expanding grout" and injected it under the
edge of the existing tile as well as in the joint between the old tile
and the new. This is almost guaranteed to pop the old tile, or crack
them if they are well bonded to the slab. I;d say not too smart tile
man doing the repair, POSSIBLY combined with a substandard original
job (no excuse for the original tile to have come loose if done
properly in the first place)
He said they added some adhesive to existing tiles. That makes them part
of the new work. He is not giving any warranty on the work he is doing,
but putting in an exception.
He is saying "I'll fix it, but if it goes to crap it is not my fault"
On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:15:24 PM UTC-4, taxed and spent wrote:
Are you saying the OP is wrong and/or lying? He specifically said that it was the "adjacent" tiles that were popping and that there was clause that said the contractor wasn't responsible for damage to "nearby tiles".
I am thinking the OP is talking about tiles popping that are adjacent to
removed/replaced tiles. But if the contractor injected stuff under those
now popped tiles, they are not adjacent tiles to the work the contractor
did, they are part of the work the contractor did.
I don't think this is worth pursuing with the contractor or in court. But
it would be good to get to the bottom of it.
True. It's strange to put the credit card company in the position of a
court. It really isn't their job to determine what the contract says.
I took a closer look at the contract and there is vary little said
about adjacent tiles. The only part that seems to apply is thatt they
are not responsible for glue leakage outside of the work area. Well,
by glue leakage I think of some glue coming up, not 25 tiles coming
In alt.home.repair, on Tue, 08 Sep 2015 08:19:47 -0400, dgk
His measure of damages is the cost to put it back the way it was before
he had this last repair. That alone could be more than 900. In fact
the contractor says it's 1400. But he's also entitled to the
benefit of his bargain that he paid 900 for, and if the new work that
was done was damaged, since the repair guy won't do it as a warranty
repair he's entitled to go somewhere else. In that case, it may cost
more to get the originally contracted work redone, if it needs to be
redone, than the orignal guy charged. No matter how you add it up,
his total damages, assuming he wins, would be what it takes to put the
tile back the way it was before the last repair, and to have the work
agreed to in the last repair completed by someone else.
Sometimes it costs more than the original price to get work redone.
Especially when a contractor bids less than competent people do because
he knows he's not very competent. (Being somewhat incompetent and
learning on the job is fine, if all it does is cost the contractor time,
without substantially inconveniencing who has hired him. But not if it
means finishing with an inferior job. )
They didn't want that role, but they needed to do it to keep customers
(after I guess one such company started doing it.)
This is more detail than I saw you give before. Glue leakage is a lot
more limited than damage. If it had said not responsible for damage to
nearby tiles, some woudl have claimed that mean they could drop a tile
cutter on the floor and if breaks a tile, they're not resonsiible. Or
at least if he was chipping away at excess grout and broke the tile next
to it, they weren't responsible.
But glue leakage? That sounds like spilling glue on other tiles or
even the carpet next room.
Let's assume there was glue leakage and that they're not repsonsible for
that. Glue leakage is not glue expansion, or glue dislocation of
existing tiles. afa you've posted, there's notihing in the contract
saying they're not responsible for that.
It's something like a contract that said not repsonsible for
foul-smelling fumes the evening after the repair, and then someone in
the house passes out and dies from the fumes. They may not be
responsible for the fumes being there, or for foul smells, but they''re
not released from liabitlity for products that make poisonous fumes.
I think you've made a wise choice . Not only did he overcharge you , but
IMO he deliberately caused other problems to try to bend you over some more
. I've ran home repair/flooring install/light construction businesses in the
past , and never had to resort to this type of chicanery to make a decent
living . Quality work at a reasonable price will have people calling you ,
instead of screwing every one and never getting a call back . Some of my
former customers still call me , even though I've retired and moved away .
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