Adjacent tiles lift after repair work. Is it malpractice?

I moved into a 34 year old single floor home.I think it's a concrete slab. I knew that some tile work needed to be done since the ceramic tiles (9 1/2 " squares) were lifting off the floor in the hallway entrance. I hired a local contractor that came recommended by the real estate agent. The contractor walked around the house hitting all the tiles with a broomstick handle so he could tell the general state of the tiles.

Sometime in the past, work had been done in the same area. Twelve tiles had been removed and replaced with different tiles to form a diamond pattern by the entrance hallway. It looked really nice and left some used spare tiles that were in the garage.

The guys reset the tiles, using six of the spares to replace some of the others that had cracked or been nicked over time. They injected adhesive between some other tiles to make sure that they didn't come up. The whole job was just under $900, paid by credit card.

The next morning I walked through the kitchen, heard a CRACK, and over a 10 second period watched as tiles adjacent to the repaired tiles lifted up and one even cracked in half and jumped about 6" into the air. Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the floor.

The contractor says that this happens sometimes and that the contract specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles, and that if this type of thing happens it usually happens when the guys are actually doing the work. The owner offered to repair the damage for half price, around $700. But he also said that he couldn't guarantee that the other kitchen tiles would stay in place and suggested that it would be more cost effective to have someone redo the kitchen tiles. There also aren't enough spares to replace all the tiles that cracked.

I brought the tile that jumped into the air to a nearby tile store and he says that he tile didn't have enough adhesive on it to begin with. But the tile guys at Home Depot say that this should not have happened and that the contractor injected too much adhesive under the tiles.

I'm a reasonable guy. If this was just something that does happen to even experienced tile guys and it was just bad luck, then I allow the payment to go through and don't cause a fuss. But if you folks think that it was an error by the contractor, then I'll stop the charge and complain to the state business people.

So? Shit Happens or Bad Work?

Reply to
dgk
Loading thread data ...

This would seem to be the most relevant part:

"the contract specifies that they aren't responsible for damage to nearby tiles"

So, I don't think you're in a good position. I can see how you could wind up in this position. If I read that contract, I would think it means that while they are doing the work, removing the loose tiles, etc, if an adjacent one get's damaged, they aren't responsible. I would never expect that a day later a lot of them would be cracking.

It's weird, do you know what kind of adhesive they used? If you had an empty tube of it and can show that it was unsuited to the job, not recommended for use on tile, or something like that, then I think you have a cause to get a refund. I guess the lesson here is that if you have a lot of loose tiles, it shows the job wasn't done right and it's better to just bite the bullet and redo the whole thing.

Reply to
trader_4

I say bad work . There is no reason for a tile repair to exert sideways force on adjacent tiles . If he used an expanding type (like hydraulic cement) mix to inject , he screwed up . But I could be wrong , I only have about 25 years experience with flooring systems , including tile , hardwood , vinyl , and carpet .

Reply to
Terry Coombs

I think you are screwed. Good chance they did cause some of the damage, but it sounds like it was a poor job to start with. I know it is expensive, but I'd consider doing the whole floor over again, but with a different contractor.

Given the contract wording, I don't think you have a chance in court.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

I cannot imagine anything that would lift up adjacent tiles, the sole exception being something that expanded as it cured (like foam). If the latter, it should not have been used...the only thing that should be used to stick down floor tiles on a slab is either thinset (cementatious) or mastic and, personally, I wouldn't use mastic.

What I do know is that you were screwed royally on the price...$900 to replace 12 tiles is ridiculous..

Reply to
dadiOH

reading comprehension is just not your thing, is it?

Reply to
taxed and spent

He has to kick back 25% to the realtor that recommended him.

Reply to
Ed Pawlowski

So enlighten me, O Learned One. OP said 12 tiles were worked on and 6 of the 12 were replaced. It is a ridiculous price, shouldn't take one man more than half a day even if he loafed most of the time.

Reply to
dadiOH

no, he didn't.

he said 12 tiles had previously been replaced in a diamond pattern.

he said the guy used a broomstick to tell the state of the tiles around the house.

He did not say how many tiles were replaced or adjusted.

He did say that 6 spare tiles were used.

He did not say that only the 12 tiles that had previously been replaced were replaced or adjusted.

He did not say the number of tiles that were replaced or adjusted for the $900.

You are welcome, O Learned One.

Reply to
taxed and spent

It's not clear exactly how many were actually replaced, but I agree with you that from the description, it doesn't sound like it was a lot.

Reply to
trader_4

Let's do some math.

"Around 20 tiles (9 1/2 " tiles) are now no longer attached to the floor.(snip) The owner offered to repair the damage for half price, around $700."

2 X $700 = $1400 $1400/(around 20) = around $70/tile before the discount (Wow!)

"The whole" (original) "job was just under $900." Can we assume no discount? None was mentioned.

(just under $900)/(around $70/tile) = just under, around 12.86 tiles repaired as the original job.

I think my math is correct, but I hope not. 900/(2*700/20)= 12.86

$70/tile for a repair job? As I said earlier...Wow!

Reply to
DerbyDad03

I think this is a case that is screaming for the facts to be known. Something is not right in the OP, even if we try to parse out the language.

Reply to
taxed and spent

Another thing is no warranty of any kind on the contract? Sounds like some thing is not right on workmanship or materials used.

Reply to
Tony Hwang

Why would a warranty enter into this? The tiles repaired under the contract are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In addition, accord ing to the OP, the contract specifically states that the contractor is not responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

This does not appear to be a warranty issue.

Reply to
DerbyDad03

There are a *LOT* of jack-leg hacks in the construction/remodeling trades. When you have your floors redone, make sure they use Schluter-DITRA uncoupling membrane.

formatting link

Reply to
devnull

ct are not the ones he is currently having problems with. In addition, acco rding to the OP, the contract specifically states that the contractor is no t responsible for damage to nearby tiles.

As I said before, I think his best shot is if by a miracle there is an empty tube of whatever this adhesive was still around. I'd be very curious to know what it was. And if it's something that isn't appropriate for the application, then I think he's got a case for a full refund. I think what happened obviously shows that it's not the right product, but if it says it on the tube, that's a lot better. Even with the disclaimer about not being responsible for adjacent tiles, he might be able to win a case on the basis that the real problem is the contractor was incompetent, that having a big disaster like this is the result of using the wrong product, etc.

Say for example, a power washing company has a contract to do the wood siding on your house that says something to the effect of not being responsible for surface damage. Does that mean they can use 5000 PSI, totally screw all the siding, then just walk away? I don't think so, because they violated implicit standards of professional competency. He might win a similar argument here and I'd probably stop the payment.

Reply to
trader_4

Maybe he is realtor's brother or kid?

Reply to
Tony Hwang

I had that once. It was painful, but antibiotic cured it.

Reply to
trader_4

| There are a *LOT* of jack-leg hacks in the construction/remodeling | trades. When you have your floors redone, make sure they use | Schluter-DITRA uncoupling membrane. | |

formatting link

I happen to be going to a job this week where that method was used. 6 months ago. Grout is cracking and at least one tile is loose. I don't know whether the job was done right, but I find it hard to believe there's any good reason to float a tile floor on a sheet of plastic when it can be done with time- tested thinset on concrete board.

In this case he thinks the subfloor is concrete. So what are you recommending? That he should maybe fill in the loose gaps with sand mix, then float a plastic-sheet-job and raise the whole floor by 1/2" to 3/4"? That doesn't sound like a plan to me.

There may be hacks in the construction trade, but it doesn't help that new, untested, "high tech" replacement methods keep being cooked up to replace doing things the right way.

Reply to
Mayayana

Depends on your point of view . I see this as something caused by the repair work . Having laid more than a few square feet of tile , I've *never* heard of this happening . That contractor used something that expanded and put some pretty extreme pressure on the adjacent tiles - possibly a hydraulic cement meant to expand into cracks and seal them . I believe I'd hire an expert witness and sue the ratbastard for a comlete new floor , since his work caused damage . That contract is null and void if you can prove the guy intentionally caused this problem in hopes of selling a big tile replacemwnt job . And I think - from the facts as presented - that he did exactly that . And I'd be going over that contract to see exactly what it says too ...

Reply to
Terry Coombs

HomeOwnersHub website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.