My neighbor had an AC repairman over to recharge the house system. He has a
leak somewhere that will have to eventually be fixed. He will probably also
need a new system soon.
I was talking to the repairman and asked him about AC brands. He told me
not to get too hung up on name brands and to pay more attention to the
warranties. The brands that he sells are RUUD and Frigidaire. According to
him Frigidaire has the best warranty in the business. I can't remember
exactly what he said it was, but his point was warranty is the main thing.
Yes, I know he is trying to sell something to the neighbor eventually. I'm
wondering if he gets the best markup on the Frigidaires.
What is the opinion of people here?
Well you asked for it so let me be the first,
It's the installer not the brand that makes the difference...the Lennox
dealer says his are the best, Trane guy says the same and on and on. You
will find the Big 3 have very competitive pricing, As one very helpful
poster will tell you(CBhvac) they are all junk if they are not correctly and
properly installed, although the installer next door did him a favor
charging his leaky unit, he violated the law. Not sure he'd be my choice
since he's willing to do so, will he be breaking the law of electrical codes
next? Will he cut more corners? If you research the net you will find that
there are about 4 parent company's that manufacturer the majority of units,
warranty length is included in the price so and you can buy up your warranty
if you choose with any reputable dealer...good luck, Ruud is the contractor
edition of Rheem, exact same units part for part, price difference is in the
warranty, Ruud has less than Rheem and costs less...get the picture!
Been in the business for 43 years and sorry but that is JUST NOT TRUE, there is
NO SUCH LAW that says you can't charge a leaky A/C unit.
Shame on you for posting things that you don't know are factual.
(some folks might think you know what you're talking about.)
He really should have given the customer the choice of paying for the labor to
locate and repair the leak though (if he didn't)
I do agree though, it's not the warranty or the name brand that's most
important, it's the quality and pride of the work.
Well, I live in Southern Virginia and most people around here are
considering these days to be rather hot.
I didn't intend for this post to become an opportunity for others to start
flaming each other. I merely asked for people's opinion of the situation.
Perhaps we could all kiss and make up now.
Ok...fine..whatever..see below..but do yourself a favor, and stop the
spin...I call them as I see them, and there was NO need in your attack, and
yes, it was.
No kidding...just commenting on your own words..
You are sure worked up about nothing then....
The things that bother me, are simple....idiots that want to call themselves
pros, and give the trade a black eye, as you did.
I dunno about you man..but I live a pretty good life. Wanna talk about what
we got..fine...see below.
The only person that lost credibility, is you. I notice you chose to defer
the accusations, and start new ones...
If you have been around as long as I have....(before Q-Link BTW...think
about it) you would know we call that a troll.
BTW..thats about 4 years prior to Q-link...so what? What point does it
prove? Some of us know what a Timex Sinclair or a C-64, or 64-C are?
That some of us remember when 300 baud was considered rocking?
Bingo...but your post sure said alot...and in all actuallty, I could care
I know what I do....and thats correct alot of mis-informed persons of the
scams in the trade....like....charging for refrigerant when there is no
Sizing equipment when no manual J, or T or D is done..
The list goes on....and on....and on....
Ahh...no...twisting and spinnin...I defended the poster that you
attacked....keep those facts clear old timer.
And personally, I dont worry about electrical....I have a full time
electrician, and he has his own company....I never worry about it being done
right....it always, EVERYTIME is done to perfection....period.
Coolness.....wonderful for you....As I recall, Service Experts in Southern
CA had about 5X that and got bought out.....just keep that in mind..I do
every time my customers back in Palm Springs where I have my other home, fly
me back to fix the simple stuff...like, a seasonal service. I have one right
now that is waiting on my daughter to have her baby (shes on the way to the
NAval Hospital RIGHT now in San Diego....finally)....so that he can have me
come service his home unit, and the 210 units on his apartment complex he
owns...sure...its a big job..but I still have people out there...
Good for you, does that give you the right to attack a person that simply
Master Mechanic...thats a good one..is it anything like the 6 Gold level ASE
certs I have?
I keep them up to date, just so I can hang a few on the wall, ....scattered
among the other certs..
Your attitude, sucked.
Of course, if I posted the actual cost of equipment, in your eyes, I would
One of our??? trademen? Wait...you said there was no law...
Now...I dont know about you, but a trademan, a real professional, will take
the time to find the damn leak. He is on a call, he is there to repair a
problem, NOT put a bandage on the problem......
I fire guys for less..
No..you are correct. Of course, I disagree with charging more than an extra
hours labor for a leak I can find normally in minutes. I have had a couple
of ICPs that took all of 10 minutes each to diagnose, and under 2 hours to
replace....I wont tell you what I charge for that, as it might make a few
angry...lets just say, that the ad that we run, that states: No overtime
fees, No weekend rate hikes, and No Holiday rate hikes falls in line with my
logic..of course, Sunday, that 4L400 belt I went out and replaced on that
ThermoPride was a grand total of $50...total....service fees, and checkout
Ever seen a residential unit that took more than 50lbs of refrigerant? I
have. I have seen several, and installed quite a few. Of course, this WAS in
Palm Springs, and it WAS on a few very, very large homes. We are not talking
about the 5,000SF varity...
Ok...easy enough..its in the 608..its online and here is the link..
Now, as I stated before, its for stationary equipment over 50lbs of
charge.....and there is some residential units that are like that...think
about it...50lbs...aint that much really.
The facts are, that you stated that there was NO law that stated that leaks
had to be repaired, and there IS.
Also, if you take what Enviroment Canada says, its a literal fact:
i) Containment (Continued Operation of Existing Equipment and Refrigerants)
Containment is defined as the act of restraining, constraining and
controlling an emission. Containment should be the first priority in order
to immediately stop the release of refrigerants.
Leaks are usually caused by equipment vibration, gasket deterioration, and
corrosion. Preventive maintenance, recycling, and a reclamation program can
allow for the continued operation of existing equipment without compromising
the environment or your budget.
If you only had a clue who you were talking to..lolol...ok...I know that....
About like you dodging me the other day when I pointed out that there is no
law requiring a non-commercial outfit to OWN recovery equipment. How come
you didn't whip out the book and prove me wrong? I'll tell you why.
Because you can't. Stings like a bitch doesn't it?
You are a pedantic fuck that is reaching so far your shoulder is plumb out
of socket. This is hilarious. Residential units taking 50lbs, yeah right,
and in Palm Springs? A desert where no dehumidification is needed?
99% of all homes needing that much cooling capacity will have multiple 4
and 5 ton units, not one giant unit. And you and I both know those take
You are just trying to save your ass and it isn't flying bozo.
No one dodged shit....you want to argue a point that you made...yippie.
Non certified people do not need recovery equipment...or gauges, or a jug of
And, from you...LOL...stings...not even....tickles maybe.
Funny tho...how do you have an outift, AKA biz, that isnt commercial? Funny
how that works...either you are are, or you are not...do you mean
If you did, you are correct...there is no law that states you MUST own
recovery equipment....just one that states you MUST recover. Hell of a loop
there isnt it?
Now...if you want to get techy...(lets) its real simple..
The EPA states, clearly, that if you are servicing equipment, or repairing
equipment, you are branded a tech. As such, not only must you be certified,
or work under a certified person. but you MUST have recovery equipment, and
it must be certified, unless it meets the grandfather requirements.
Allow me to cut, paste, and then link you.
EPA requires that persons servicing or disposing of air-conditioning and
refrigeration equipment certify to the appropriate EPA Regional Office that
they have acquired (built, bought, or leased) recovery or recycling
equipment and that they are complying with the applicable requirements of
this rule. This certification must be signed by the owner of the equipment
or another responsible officer and sent to the appropriate EPA Regional
EPA has established a technician certification program for persons
("technicians") who perform maintenance, service, repair, or disposal that
could be reasonably expected to release refrigerants into the atmosphere.
The definition of "technician" specifically includes and excludes certain
activities as follows:
a.. attaching and detaching hoses and gauges to and from the appliance to
measure pressure within the appliance;
b.. adding refrigerant to or removing refrigerant from the appliance
c.. any other activity that violates the integrity of the MVAC-like
appliances, and small appliances.
In addition, apprentices are exempt from certification requirements provided
the apprentice is closely and continually supervised by a certified
The Agency has developed four types of certification:
1.. For servicing small appliances (Type I).
2.. For servicing or disposing of high- or very high-pressure appliances,
except small appliances and MVACs (Type II).
3.. For servicing or disposing of low-pressure appliances (Type III).
4.. For servicing all types of equipment (Universal).
Technicians are required to pass an EPA-approved test given by an
EPA-approved certifying organization to become certified under the mandatory
You dont know a thing about the valley do you?
Currently, as of this moment, its 103F and a RH of 27%...wow....thats low.
No inversion layer this day...its 108F in Palm Desert, and
Never been there for more than a week huh?
You get days its so damn hazy out there, you cant see across the valley, and
its NOT smog...not dust..but....humidity.....any longtime resident knows the
But..you know..you add in a million pools, everyone watering the lawn 5X a
day.....yea...you know alot about the area.
I still have a home there....getting ready to go back....of course, its not
like here today....95F and 80%...couple of weeks ago however, it was over
65% humidty and over 106 there..
You also must not know much about latent heat removal.....
The Coachella Valley is a strange place...5 miles in one direction, its 110F
and dead air, 5 in the other, and its 87F and 60MPH gusts....2 in another
direction, and its like a sauna...guess thats why in an area thats overall,
pretty damn small, they have over 500 licenced HVAC guys, and all have as
much as they can handle.
Most of the single wide trailers there in the retirement communities take a
4 ton and several have 5 tons....thats the ONLY way you are going to cool
one, whereas here, a 14X60 takes MAX 2.5 tons....HALF that, yet, twice the
My home in the Cove has one 12 ton unit on it....OMG....NOT two 5 tonners
and a 2...ONE unit....mother in laws got one 7 ton unit...NOT two 3.5
Amazing how much she saves a month too..
You stick to the little stuff....we installed residential units that were
chillers on several large homes....one on Clancy Lane IF you must know.
Also, several other units, that could have been called quite easy,
commercial units. You have never experenced Southern California Edision or
Title 24 I take it...
Umm...10lbs max huh? How about an Intertherm 5 ton 13SEER? 15 lbs, FACTORY
charge...thats half a jug to you unlicenced guys...the new ones...dunno,
dont deal in the crap. Just had a compressor change out in one, and the damn
thing is almost to my chest....replaced one last week, recovered 16lbs, and
it about didnt fit in the van, and have pics to back that one up..and they
are all over.
Bullshit hackboi...you are just trying to look all big and important, and
thats fine...you are a God behind your keyboard. Real world is where it
matters, and since you dont exist in mine, LOL...your like a
gnat...bothersome, yet, oddly intriguing.
I cant help it if you have not the experence to understand. It will come.
Fact remains, here where this post originated CANADA, it's $25,000.00
Canadian dollars if you charge a known leaker. (that's about $18,000.00 us
dollars at today's exchange rate) If Rob R comes to work here (and we know
he won't..being hypothetical here) and doesn't sweat the small stuff (little
leaks) he won't be in business very long. The government will own everything
(through fines) and customers here don't want to call their HVAC tech every
year for a recharge, so don't count on repeat business...now I've opened the
door for all the Canadian bashing that will probably take place..but we'll
deal with that later. I see more constructive criticism from CBhvac in these
news groups than I see total posts from Rob R. CBhvac was not my contractor
for obvious reasons (location for those oblivious) but gave me all the
insight I needed in choosing the right unit and contractor. I do worry about
the small stuff when I choose people to give my hard earned cash to, I want
them to do it right, the first time. Value for my dollar means more than the
cheapest price! Now let's all go for a beer eh?
Don't know about Canada and don't really care since I'm not going there but I'll
take your word for it even though I still haven't seen proof.
The Fact STILL remains that in the USA (where the OP was from) there is NO SUCH
LAW that says you can not add refrigerant to a residential A/C system without
repairing the leak and posting that someone broke a law is WRONG when NO SUCH
# 608 DOES NOT SAY SUCH
That's it, that's the simple fact
I did NOT SAY we don't locate and repair leaks
I did not say anything derogatory about CBHvac except that he calls people names
to make up for the fact that he posted an incorrect statement and won't or
can't act like a gentleman (on here)
It's got absolutely NOTHING to do with all the other stuff that's been posted
side stepping the FACT and trying to change the subject to keep from eating Crow
by calling people childish names does not change it !
Reminds me of when I was in high school, I bought a Sears lawnmower with a
Briggs & Stratton engine. It had a 90 day warranty. My neighbor, who was an
accountant, bought the same lawnmower, but with a newly designed Sears engine.
It was guaranteed a year, and that is why he chose it. You know the end of the
story. His died in 13 months. I cut grass all over the neighborhood and mine was
still operable when I left home years later. We have a Sony portable color TV
that had a 1 year warranty I think. It is alive and well at age 24. Warranty
length is not a reliable guide to quality in any product. It can be some
indication of how much help you will get if failures occur during the warranty,
but read the fine print and see if it really matters. A Hyundai has a 10 year
warranty. Wonder why everyone is not driving one..
You worry about the install. Warranties are about pointless now.
Really. A good install, and chances are, you wont ever need the warranty for
the life of the unit.
Based on what? Crappy old Goodman/Janitrol has a lifetime warranty that is
out there....ok..its crap units, its normally sold by the worst in the biz,
and you WILL need it, but...based on WHAT?
Warranty is the last thing I even worry about when talking to a customer. It
is there IF they need it. Like any major appliance, extended warranty is
there if they want it...
Name on the unit...means little in the big picture...the installation
quality, the prep work done to insure correct sizing of equipment, and any
duct modifications or additions need to be calculated CORRECTLY and
installed right...that means more than any piece of paper with a warranty on
it, or a name on a unit.
Who knows? Each distributor has about 5 different prices on the same
equipment , to each dealer. It depends on who you pissed off at the supply
house, how many a year you sell, what your waranty returns look like...etc..
HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.