3-way switch

[Terry]

I bet he is talking about that California 3-way again. That doesn't count.

It would only confuse the OP. And me too. :)

[RBM]

So, if you can't understand the words, or the logic, your solution is to guess at wire colors?

[Mark Lloyd]

So how do I think it's wired?

I have examined the wiring at the fixture. There are two pieces of Romex there. Only one wire from each is used.

I have posted diagrams of the wiring before, although you should be able to figure it out from my previous post.

[Mark Lloyd]

It's NOT a "California 3-way". That has all 3 switch terminals connected together, this has only 2 (second diagram below). The light is between the common terminals.

So, you'd like to assume there's only ONE way to wire 3-way switches? Reality often doesn't cooperate with peoples preferences. It refuses to simplify itself to comply with your wishes.

Here's 3 (don't forget to use a fixed font to view this)

switch#1 switch#2 o|----------------o| (H) | |

-------o| o|--------light---\\ | o-----------------o | (N) |

-------------------------------------------/

(H)

--------o|--------------------o | o|------light---------o| (N) |

--------o---------------------o|

(H)

--------o|---------------------o | o|---------------------o| | o----------------------o| | (N) |

---------------------------light

[Doug Miller]

Oh, are you talking about that "California Three-Way"? The circuit that's just one big massive code violation?

[Mark Lloyd]

The one that is connected to each of the switches in the circuit I have.

Yes.

Doesn't say how they were wired.

True IF they are wired in a certain way. How do you know that's how they were wired?

[pheeh.zero]

Are you asking? Don't you understand? Oh, maybe you wanted to use an exclamation instead of a question mark!

[Doug Miller]

There are at least two that are Code-compliant, and probably a great many that are not.

That's one of the Code-compliant ones.

That one has at least two Code violations:

1) With the switches positioned as shown, the switch on the right is on the neutral side of the lamp. Switches must always be on the hot side of the load they control; current must flow from switch to switch to load to neutral, never from switch to load to switch to neutral. 2) With the positions of the switches reversed, the lamp still illuminates, but the polarity of the contacts in the lamp socket has been reversed. In one of those configurations, the shell of the socket is hot and the tip is neutral, also a Code violation.

That's the other Code-compliant one.

[Doug Miller]

He seems to be operating under the same assumption I was -- that the circuit in question is at least minimally Code-compliant.

[RBM]

Your method is probably how the OP got in trouble in the first place. Stop helping!!!

[Terry]

We have rehashed this to death already. If it is not a California

3-way then it is switching the neutral. That is against the code.

I do understand that there is more than one way to skin a cat. I was just trying to help the OP get his lights working again.

I have a hard time following ASCII drawings. Sorry

[<kjpro]

You call his crap help? :-)

[pheeh.zero]

Actually, my post was for someone like you...who gets on a tangent and won&#39;t think any other way! "He&#39;s guessing at a color! A color, he&#39;s guessing! Guessing! Can you imagine guessing! How can he offer guessing! Guessing is not logical! Why is he guessing?! I&#39;m glad I&#39;m not guessing!"

I made my point...try sticking yours...!

[Mark Lloyd]

I know. My giving this example had nothing to do with code, but the fact that such a circuit actually exists. Such circuits may be present in other people&#39;s wiring too, so saying that only one of the 6 wires will be hot, may be incorrect.

Do you think it&#39;s important enough to fix?

[Mark Lloyd]

Sounds like you&#39;re equating "against code" with "nonexistent". Of course, that second way (which switches the neutral) is not recommended for new construction. Did you think this was new construction?

How do you know how the OP&#39;s light is wired?

The main problem is when proportional spacing makes a mess of it. You avoid that mess by using a fixed-width font while drawing and while reading.

[Mark Lloyd]

Was it in 1974, when this house was built? Anyway, someone did it that way. I have one example of this "code violation". why couldn&#39;t there be others?

[Doug Miller]

Yes.

[Doug Miller]

"Not recommended for new construction"???

Try "prohibited in all cases".

Whether it&#39;s new construction or not is irrelevant. Putting a switch on the neutral side of a load is prohibited by Code, and AFAIK it always has been. Likewise energizing the shell of a lampholder (which this circuit *also* does).

[Doug Miller]

Yes. AFAIK, Code has *never* allowed switching the neutral.

[Mark Lloyd]

OK. The connections are relatively short, so it may be possible to use the existing pieces of Romex (14/2 with no ground) to pull new 14/3). Hopefully it won&#39;t even require going into the attic (which gets really hot here).