Neighbor Fence Problem/Question?? LONG!!

[Dioclese]

No "COME ON". Kinda depends what's in the garden at the time, like new sprouts just seeing the sun for the first time. It probably escalated from there, to an over-protective gardener. Maybe a recluse responding the only way he/she is comfortable with. I don't know, just hearing your side. Sounds like something that could be worked out locally, but, it also sounds you've never addressed your neighbor personally in an amiable manner. Just an irritant to you that you can't kill with your bug spray.

And the factual data about the so-called ditch vs. the amount of topsoil you and your husband used to fill the ditch in is so bogus... And, you acknowledged that the ditch was on his property. All of which you snipped out in your previous reply of course.

[trader4]

Another good point. The ditch is supposed to be 2 ft wide, by 2 or 3 ft deep and with three 8 ft fence sections, it must be about 24 ft long. That's 100 to 124 cubic feet. You sure can't fill that up with 20 bags of topsoil. And with the ditch 2 feet wide at the property line, the fence 4" from the property line, the whole geometry of this doesn't add up.

And, you

[Tom J]

How long is it going to take you guys & girls to figure out someone is "pulling your chain"? :-( Tom J

[MICHELLE H.]

Hello everyone,

Just got home a little while ago, and so I went out and took the measurements of this trench, for everyone asking just how big this thing really is.

Here are the measurements just taken today:

1) The trench he dug, is 24-25 feet LONG. This one is easy to figure out, because it is the same length as the fence ( three 8 foot sections = 24 feet ), but he actually started and stopped the trench a little more than the length of the fence.

2) The WIDTH of the trench is about 10 1/2 inches wide, from the property line marker pole, to his fence.

3) The DEPTH of the trench is between 18-19 inches deep. It could have been deeper than this, because I measured where most of the soil got washed away the other night when we got heavy rain from a thunderstorm. So there could be some topsoil remaining that didn't wash away yet, and so it could have been deeper?? But right now it is between 18-19 inches deep in a 7-8 foot long section.

NOTES:

---------------

When he got into the fight with us about this whole situation a few days ago, HE is the one who kept saying that "the fence isn't on the property line, but 4 inches back from it on his property".

Actually, from the property line marker pole which is cemented into the ground, the fence is actually about 10 1/2 inches back from the property line, so this is how WIDE the trench is. The reason the fence is 10 1/2 inches back from the property line, is because as I said when I started this topic, the fence is BACKWARDS, with the smooth side facing his yard, and the inside of the fence facing our yard. The fence POSTS are about "4 inches back" from the property line. But because he installed the fence backwards, the fence is actually farther back, 10 1/2 inches, because it is on the INSIDE of the fence posts.

So while we know that the fence posts and the fence are on his property, and this trench that he dug out is MOSTLY on his property, it still starts at the property line, and this thing is 24-25 feet long, 10 1/2 inches wide, and 18-19 inches deep. And so we worry about our young children falling into this and breaking their foot or ankle or something!!!!!

Also, because our backyard is up higher than where this trench is, and he made this trench SLOPE downwards toward the fence and his garden. What if the soil from our backyard starts to erode and wash away because of this??

For some reason, when he dug out and made this trench, he didn't dig it out nice and flat, he dug it out at an angle, and left it as a hill, so that is SLOPES downward toward his fence and garden.

So this is why almost all of the topsoil and grass seed we put there washed away, because it all washed down under the fence, and into his garden.

What is everybodys opinion on this?? Is this considered a safety hazard?? Should we report him to the city hall code violation department for this trench being a nuissance as well as UNSAFE??

Comments and suggestions would be very much appreciated!!!!!

Thanks!

[MICHELLE H.]

Sorry to all the people who kept saying that "this doesn't add up" and all that, and yes you are RIGHT. It wouldn't have added up, because we never measured this trench, and so when I said it was 2-3 feet deep and

2-3 feet wide in my original post, I was just ESTIMATING it.

When we got into a fight with him the other day, HE was the one that kept saying that he put the fence "4 inches back from the property line". So that is why I said in my original post that the fence was 4 inches back from the property line, because I was going by with what HE said.

As far as the topsoil goes, when we filled this trench in with topsoil, we used roughly about 15 bags or so, with DIFFERENT amounts in each bag. The reason for this is because first we used this generic Home Depot topsoil that was like $1.19 for a 40 pound bag. The stuff sucked because it was all wet, and it was loaded with all kinds of debris, like tons of rocks, sticks, pieces of plastic, paper, someones broken eye glasses frame, pieces of black roof shingles, etc, etc. So we then switched over to a different brand, and used "Scotts Premium Organic Topsoil" which came in a ".75 cubic foot bag", which was $1.99 a bag.

When we filled in the trench, it WAS NOT completely filled up to the top. We filled in most of it, but when we got done, it still WASN'T as high and or as even as the rest of our lawn. It was still a few inches lower then the rest of the backyard on our side of the property line. We didn't feel like driving another 25 minutes back to Home Depot for more topsoil, so we just decided to seed it with grass seed.

So I am SORRY for giving the WRONG facts in my original post, saying that the fence was 4 inches back, but the trench was 2-3 feet wide.

After going out there today, and measuring it with a tape measure, I now know the ACCURATE measurements of this trench that he dug out, which is

24-25 feet LONG, 10 1/2 - 11 inches WIDE, and 18-19 inches DEEP.

And as I said in my last post right before this one, the FENCE POSTS are about 4 inches back from the property line, but the fence is about 10

1/2 to 11 inches back from the property line, because he installed the fence backwards, and its on the inside of the posts.

So this is the ACTUAL size of the trench from the property line: 10 1/2 to 11 inches wide, 18 to 19 inches deep, and 24 to 25 feet long.

[EXT]

What you are describing is a "ditch". Ditches exist all over the world, I have on beside the street and one down the side of my property that drains it to the street ditch. Ditches have existed and exist everywhere with virtually no danger to pets, children nor adults unless they are full of water and someone falls in unconscious. He has a right to dig a ditch on his property, however, if the sides are at about 45 degrees or steeper, you may have a complaint that he has made your property unstable. He then should install a retaining wall along the edge to hold up the soil. This is where you need to sweet talk him into seeing your side before you call the authorities.

[Dave Balderstone]

One exclamation point suffices. Using more than one is often a sign of an unstable mind.

Seriously, you could have called city hall and had an inspector deal with this in half the time you've spent moaning and whinging about it on usenet.

You don't want suggestions, you just want validation.

[Art]

MICHELLE H. babbled:

When you install a fence, you get to choose who gets to view the pretty side. If he installed the fence then he can have the good side facing him. That doesn't make it "BACKWARDS". If you installed it then you were stupid for putting the good side away from you.

I'm glad you're not my neighbor.

[willshak]

on 6/20/2008 8:51 PM Art said the following:

In places where there are zoning laws and enforcement, the good side faces away from the owner's property. Why should the person not fencing in the property have to look at the ugly side of a fence? Would you put the ugly side of a fence facing the street?

[MICHELLE H.]

The last comment from "willshack" is EXCACTLY right!! In our city, the ZONING LAWS state that "whenever a fence is installed by a homeowner on private property, the smooth side of the fence MUST face your neighbors property, and the inside of the fence must face your property. Failure to install the fence this way is a CODE VIOLATION and is subjected to a DAILY fine by the city, until the fence is installed the CORRECT way".

So if I report him for this, he would would be in big trouble, and have ALOT of work to do. Because as I stated in one of my previous posts, he installed the fence backwards not only on the left side of his house,

108 feet, where our shared property line is, but he installed it this way in the back of his house as well, and that is about 75 feet long.

So basically it looks pretty stupid. On the RIGHT side of his house, he has about 108 feet long of 6' x 8' foot wooden spruce stockade fence, and this is facing the CORRECT way ( per our city zoning laws and codes ), with the smooth side facing his neighbors yard, and the inside facing his yard.

But on the LEFT side of his house where we share the property line, he has the 108 feet of 6' x 8' foot wooden spruce stockade fence facing the WRONG way, with the smooth side facing his house, and the inside facing our yard and house.

It is also the same way in his backyard, where last year he installed 75 feet long of 6' x 8' foot wooden spruce stockade fence. This is facing the WRONG way as well, as he has the smooth side facing his yard and house, and the inside facing the woods.

So if we wanted, we could get him in trouble for not obeying the citys zoning laws for having the MAJORITY of his fence installed the WRONG way. But as someone said in another post, how would this solve the problem of the 24-25 foot long, 10 1/2 to 11 inch wide, 18 to 19 inch deep trench/ditch that he dug there on the property line which is our main concern anyway.

Even if he turned his fence the correct way, and faced the smooth side of the fence toward our property as the city zoning laws state, the trench/ditch is still going to be there.

[willshak]

on 6/21/2008 9:15 AM MICHELLE H. said the following:

Well, if the fence was installed wrong according to your local zoning law, then the zoning department probably was never contacted before installing this fence, because they would have told him the right way to face the fence, and how far from the property line he could install it. Additionally, there probably would have been a permit required, which would be followed up by an inspection for compliance. Ask the zoning department for the distance from the property line that a fence can be erected (it's called 'setback'). He may be in violation of that code too. When I installed my fence in 1986, the minimum setback distance was

6 inches (I added a couple of inches to that to make it 8 inches from the property line). The current revised code is 3 feet. I don't have to move my fence because it is 'grandfathered' to the 1986 code. He may have to remove the whole fence, posts and all, to comply with the setback code. Good luck.

[Art]

In my experience, and I am no fence expert, along the sides and back where it borders on a neighbor's property, the good side generally faces in towards whoever installed it. The street side is different, there the good side faces the street. At least that is std practice where I live.

I would be surprised if any zoning laws or codes address which way a fence faces. I could see where that could be a real can of worms with some fences, where it's more a matter of opinion which side is the "good side."

[Art]

So report it already and quit whining.

[Eggs Zachtly]

It's a webtv user. They can't figure out how to use a computer to access the net(s). How can you expect them to judge the size of a ditch? ;)

[trader4]

It's not at all unusual for municipalities to have ordinances which specify many things about fences, from setback, to max height, where they may or may not be installed, (ie not permitted in front yards, but OK in back), etc. And most definitely it's not unusual for it to include something about which way the finished side faces. Which only makes sense, as if you want to put up something it's only reasonable that the side everyone has to look at be as good as the side the person putting it up sees.

[Dioclese]

Right. And if you read one of Michelle's replies, she mentions deer on the property. Must be awful low fencing for both parties. Zoning laws in typically almost rural areas aren't typically enforced. Mostly live and let live attitude. I got back here to find she hung herself with BS.

Always wondered why Microsoft's freebie Outlook Express top posts replies by default. And, why they never offered a fix for typical newsgroup users. Doesn't sound difficult in the least.

[parrotgirly]

sloping trench