What brand 410 A are you guys installing?

[Gary]

I posted last week about starting with 410A & wanted to know what brands some of you are selling & if you're having good results so far. I changed from Heil to Goodman quite a few years ago & contrary to what most might think have never regretted it. My warrantee problems have been virtually nil & profits have been better for years. Lately I've been having some leaking AH coils on in warranty units & am starting to get worried. I'm a little nervous about using their 410A units since they use the same coils as their 22 units so decided to change brands. I tried a Payne 410A last week & it went OK for now. Just looking for some experienced opinions good or bad.

[Zyp]

For us Gary, we've not hand any issues. Although in '06 there were some ADP coils [5 - ton] that had cracked pans. We got one, and started checking the boxes before we installed 'em. Otherwise, all is well.

[Noon-Air]

Gary, I have been installing Rheem for years, and have only had one evap that leaked after 6 months, out of dozens of R410a systems I have installed. My business became profitable when I went to flat rate and learned about the business of running a business.

[Gary]

They just opened a new Rheem distributorship here in Myrtle Beach. I might look into their units. Maybe Goodman coils aren't as bad as I suspect but it makes me nervous having quite a few leaks recently after going years without much problems at all. As far as learning about the business of running a business I don't think I'll ever get the hang of it. I've been doing it about twenty five years & watched rookies fly by me & make at least what looks like a fortune. At least I'm not in debt but I think I'll be working till I drop.

[Zyp]

Damn Gary;

You just described my life.

[Dr. Hardcrab]

When R-410 first came out, we were selling Rheem (I still have my "Rheem Team" ID somewhere) and we never had a problem with a units. Because of a distibutor change, we switched to Carrier and American Standard.

Now I know a lot of you don't like Carrier, but other than the condensor coil leaks back in the 90s (and that was more prominate on the R-22 units), we have never had any problems since.

[Zyp]

Quite Frankly;

As long as they don't produce any more aluminimum coils, we're good.

[KJPRO]

ICP

If you're looking for more Pains, keep selling Payne equipment. They don't like to stand behind their warranties and are a general Payne in the ass.

[KJPRO]

Talking about leaking indoor coils... who is installing these coils? (you or an employee)

I ask, because it can be caused by not pulling an adequite vacuum. Or, enviromental issues... new homes that are tight and ending up with "formicary corrosion". One thing that ICP has done to combat formicary corrosion is to tin coat their hair pins. This has cut down on the enviromental effects on the coils tremendously.

[Gary]

I usually do the start-ups, pull the vacuum etc., but as far as I'm concerned "formicary corrosion" is a phrase made up to mask the real meaning which is "coil made like crap". We've been using the same installation techniques,refrigerant (R-22) & oil for a lot of years without hearing about "formicary corrosion". Now in recent years coils are leaking at a ridiculous rate because of formicary corrosion. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, so does rust, but if a coil is made strong or thick enough it will outlast a compressor. The copper tubing in todays coils is probably half the thickness of those made thirty years ago. That coupled with the fact that workmanship has become a joke in our society gives rise to "formicary corrosion".

[Noon-Air]

Most all of the premature coil failures that I run across are because there was never a proper trap put in the drain line. 99.9% of all evap coil failures were on air handlers the other on was with a gas furnace.

[KJPRO]

I hear what you're saying. Todays coils are just to thin with the added rifling effect to raise the efficiency, that "any" deteriorating of the copper is going to create a leak. :-(

[Gary]

If that's so then it only proves my theory of how poor the coils are being made. Just think of it, a coil failing because of an excess mixture of air & moisture from improper drain trapping. I tell my customers all the time not to expect the same life out of the new unit that they got out of their old one. Hell you're lucky to get a capacitor to last five years today & the manufacturers blame it on the heat. Like it just started getting hot in the twenty first century.

[Noon-Air]

No, it just proves that the majority of these systems were installed by the lowest bidder and rather than spend a few extra pennies for a proper trap, they were either just too cheap, or too lazy to do it right.

The new systems won't last for 30 - 35 yearl like the old ones, but properly installed and cared for, will last 20+ years. Nothing lasts forever.

Yes that is a problem with the ones in a plastic can, but I have not had any problem with the ones in metal cans is standard resi type units.

Nothing to do with the heat, just the lessor manufacturers trying to use cheaper quality parts to keep their costs down....same as any other manufacturers. All those product recalls are not because they used the best quality materials or parts.

[KJPRO]

Low voltages...

[KJPRO]

Goodman's 35/5's pops like flies...

[Gary]

I don't blame Goodman, they're mostly GE capacitors that I've had problems with. I've also had a load of GE contactor's go bad blowing transformer's too. What about bad reversing valve solenoids? These parts used to have a very rare failure rate & now they've become common failures. Everything is designed for efficiency today & not for longevity.

[Noon-Air]

I don't count Goodman as "standard resi"

[KJPRO]

Goodman is STANDARD, it's just that everything else is PREMIUM grade. LOL

[Gary]

The problem is not with Goodman, it's with those who install them. I've been installing & servicing them for years & until the recent coil problems have been exceptionally pleased with their performance & reliability. I installed a Goodman heat pump in my house ten years ago & have never even had to put my gauges on it since. So much for annual maintenance. The real problem is the Goodman distibutors who sell the equipment to any unlicensed hack who doesn't install it correctly. I've still seen a whole lot more coil leaks in Yorks & Heils. I just talked to a Trane dealer & he told me he's has plenty of bad Trane coils too.