problems with heating system for steam/hyronic system

[mikeasmel]

We are having problems with the heating system in our house -- it is not heating the house adequately and hasn't done so since we moved in! This is our 3rd month in the house and the previous owners converted from an old oil system to gas just before we bought the house and we now have steam in the old part of the house and a hydronic/baseboard in the newer part of the house, all being run by one new gas boiler with a heat exchanger on it.

We asked the plumber to come over today and have a look at it since we weren't getting enough heat. He said that there was sludge that had built up in the steam system from the old pipes and that it had destroyed one circulator. He claimed that he couldn't guarantee the circulator since he was not responsible for the pipes that were in the old part of the house that he had never worked on. I told him that that was not acceptable since he had told me (before I bought the house, when I asked him if it made sense to do more work and upgrade the system further at that time, and he said absolutely not!) that it was a brand new system which he was very proud of and which he told me would be more than adequate for our home. When I asked if he could prevent/limit this from happening again (maybe flush the lines a few times?) he said that he couldn't guarantee it and that he couldn't flush the lines in a steam system (I don't understand that).

He left my house before I returned from work this evening and so I didn't actually speak with him after he worked on the system today. He did however mention to Jenny that we might have a more substantial problem.

Right now, we have very little heat in many of the rooms/radiators in the house and it is cold and I don't know why?

Any thoughts/comments/advice for me for when I speak with him next/tomorrow?

[Oscar_Lives]

Can you post some pics of Jenny's t*ts first?

[Al Moran]

Yeah, I have a thought, please post a picture of jenny's t*ts.

[Steve Scott]

[AKS]

Steve I am not there to tell you what is and what isn't but if I was you I would make sure that you don't have any air in the system, perhaps you can check this you self by track the line that comes of you heating system high pressure side and follow it see if is hot all way through, if it isn't hot all the way it is possible that you have air in the system that air must be vented otherwise pump will not prime properly and you would not have full circulation Good luck Dido

[Bob_Loblaw]

"AKS" wrote i

It has nothing to do with the pump being primed, you clueless twit!

Respectfully, Bob

[DIMwit]

Maybe, but Dido is certainly correct in suggesting there is air in the system and to check if the pipe or tubing is hot all the way or not. He certainly has a very hard time expressing himself, but continues to try suggesting things in spite of you all. He is UNDERDOG. His ........ah nevermind.

Its a better suggestion than Bubba telling somebody to pull off the foam insulation from the suction line at the evaporator and cut the line, where the hissing sound is the unit getting fixed or something like that. Hey, there ARE stupid people out there who just might do it. Sounded convincing to me ;-]

Now that my heat is turned on this morning, I gotta do down and see if the maid o' mist vent is working, cause I hear a little gurgling in my system. Could be the big bean burrito I ate last night though. PSSSST! AH! right in both cases; just had to let out enough air. What the f*ck is that stink? Hope my boiler didn't rust up with the air in it.

Bob

[Bob_Loblaw]

"DIMwit" wrote

Whoopee for Dildo! "There might be air in the system!" Elementary. Not exactly a stunning revelation on the part of a so-called tech! The question to be answered is how was the air was introduced into the system in the first place, and what measures need to taken to rectify the problem and prevent it from happening again. Once again, Dildo jumps up and tries to sound like he knows something about hvac, but offers little in the way of true expertise or legitimate problem solving solutions.

If Dildo was on a plane that was falling out of the sky, he would undoubtably rush to the cockpit and announce something brilliant like " I think theres a problem with the engine. You should get it checked!"

[Steve Scott]

[Bubba]

..........and just maybe he should STFU like you should and learn. Then when he has a clue, he can start giving advice.

See? Thats cause Im good. :-) Bubba

[AKS]

It WOULD be BEST for you to PUT you Head in BOTTOM HOLE That would make every body "HAPPY Dido

[AKS]

"Sorry" I have assumed that it was hot water system Dido

[DIMwit]

OK, I know a little about hydronic systems, and very little about steam. All I know about steam is that it is hot, rises, and will push the air out of the system until the thermal valves on the radiators get hot enough to close, meaning that the radiators are hot too.

On the other hand, who cares? I think I'd rather see Jenny's t*ts too.

Bob

[Power's Mechanical]

The way I read it was he has both HW and steam. He must have a steam to HW converter which he calls a HX. He didnt say which part or, if all of the house is not heating. If its the whole house it could be something as simple as a low steam pressure setting.

If its the HW part then it may the reset ratio on the converter control is incorrect or the valve is bad or the control is bad or it has air. Maybe the tube bundle is leaking inside the converter. Could be a lot of things that only an on site inspection will revel.

He says sludge in the old steam lines caused the circ pump to fail. What pump? Certainly not a circ pump on the steam line. Sludge (and I doubt its sludge) in the steam lnes will not intermingle with the HW lines. Hot water line yes but they are two seperate piping systems. I mean really now. How many times has anyone seen sludge in a steam pipe or trap anyhow. I cant think of a one and Ive seen plenty of old steam demo.

At any rate what he needs is a someone who knows what they are doing. Someone who can reconize how a steam to hot water sytem is piped and how its suppose to work.

What he is not going to find here without a grueling Q and A and flame session, is answers.

Might as well let Dito give his advice. Its as good as any so far.

[Bubba]

Seriously? You havenet seen sludge in steam lines? Ive seen a ton of it. Ive found it in boiler sections, return lines (plugged enough that they rotted through), McDonald Miller low water cut offs, steam traps, etc. Biggest reason is poor piping and poor maintenance. I wouldnt know what to do if I didnt find sludge/mud in steam lines. "Man'z gotta work, ya know?" Bubba

[Power's Mechanical]

Maybe water treatment has something to do with it. Something most if any residential boilers never get. You know, I open a lot of lwco's on both steam and hw boilers during CSD-1 inspections and I can recall maybe one in the last several years that had any build up in it but like I say that must be due to proper water treatment. Ive got buildings with 50 - 100 year old pipes in them and they arent all gooped up inside. Usually with steam the problem is pipes wearing out being cut by the steam.

[-zero]

Yep, that's it. Tha and proper blowdown procedures.

Many of the local chemical concoctions here are very effective and lack of blowdown is not a good option. Most are in fine shape, though. However, over the years I've pulled a few 150's/194's with a pile of scale/mud reveling a perfectly molded depression of the float in the bottom of the bowl, only allowing the ball to drop a 1/4 inch. ( and maybe half the ones that have melted down the bowls were scaled all the way up) Always follows the story of the new maintenance people or maintenance manager(didn't know they had to do "blowdown"), or front office suits took away some benefits and everybody no longer gives a shit... etc.

BTW, on page 22

Miller finally (and quietly) changed their recommended replacement for most of the (high pressure use) heads to 5 years. The 194 really goes to shit after a few years and tends to stick. Not good!

-zero

[Power's Mechanical]

In my area they require that the LWCO be disassembled, inspected and cleaned once during the inspection period (3 yrs) on every boiler over

500K btu. CSD-1 tests are required anually. Monthly logs are to be kept and up to date and if they arent the inspector will make things tough on the owners. They are very strick about it as they should be. But yea if left unattended LWCO's will accumalate sludge especially without water treatment.

Tip: I dont know if you have heard of this and you probably have but, when you reassemble the LWCO put some never seize on the float chamber gasket. It comes off the next time easily in one piece off and can be re used if needed. Beats the hell out of wire wheeling them off with a 5 inch grinder. Its a good idea to check the PRV screen at least once a year also.

[Bubba]

Yes. Im talking of the resi's that get absolutely no water treatment nor blow downs. A lot of the commercial stuff I see is the same way. Tried recommending a water treatment system to a bank that needed it badly. They about chit when they saw the price. Oh well. I can replace all the boilers and piping they want. :-) Bubba

[Power's Mechanical]

Amen to that brother. Its their money and personally I have no problem spending it. Most of all our big customers are on service contacts so they do get tended on a regular basis and every three years we open up the water side for inspection and the fire side gets opened every year. We usually (not always) spot little problems and take care of them before they become a big problem. We dont offer water treatment though. We cant compete with the companies already out there doing it.

Im into the second week of a piping job at the moment. 5000 ft of inch and up to lay out and 600 hours to do it in. So far Im 16 hours ahead of schedual but I feel it. Instead of my shoulder being sore, it just pops now. lol