Heat pump sizing

[gwa000]

i got two estimates for a heat pump. the square footage of the house is about 2100 square feet. the location is rochester, NY. before someone jumps all over me as far as having a heat pump in the northeast, keep in mind that we are on a municipal electric with the rate about 3.5-4.0 cents/KWH. in fact, my highest electric bill (air handler has electric coils for when needed) has been about $220.

anyway, one contractor said the house size was borderline for 2.5 ton or 3 ton. the current unit is a 2.5 ton.

what i'm confused about is the other contractors sizing. he sized the heat pump at 2.5 tons but the air handler evaporator coils is 3 ton. is there a reason why he may have done this? i will be getting a variable speed blower if that matters.

thanks!

[daytona°]

How old is the house? And has it colded and heated properly with the 2.5 ton unit? Location, Location and more Location is very important as to sizing any piece of HVAC equipment. And do another half ton is now big deal.

[gwa000]

[Geoman]

No, Heat pumps are different than they were 30 years ago, you'll be fine using one. Good rate too.

Not a problem IF they do a proper CFM check and tune the VS Blower into the proper CFM according to AIR

I would suggest however that you look into a two speed unit. Possibly a 4 ton two stage unit with a VS, this will allwo a much lower balance point on heating before back up/AUX heating starts. It WILL Cost more, but it may be well worth it.

Also, if you have the room go Geo Two Stage and pay about $100 a month year round for electricity and use a desuperheater for hot water heating. Yep, costs more but well worth it if your staying there and think you that energy will go up in costs.

Rich

[daytona°]

[gwa000]

i was hoping that the tonnage difference between the heat pump and air handler would not matter (in this case). one of the bullets on the installation contract says that the the "system would be air balanced". the contractor has been in business for 20 years and previously worked for another outfit for 20 years. based on that, i'm confident that he knows what he is doing (no outstanding complaints in the BBB). besides, the company is in our small village "so i know where he lives, er i mean works).

one thing that i did not mention is that it is not just the heat pump but also the whole air handler system inside that i am replacing. the whole system is from the same company so i'm guessing that the size difference between the outside heat pump and indoors evaporator coils is allowed within the manufacturer specifications.

based on comments from contractors and others that have had replacement heat pumps installed in our area higher SEER units, higher tonnage, etc. would take too longer to recover. as i said the highest bill we have ever had was around $220 (that's heat and electric). subtract out our $60 bill where we are not heating the house or using AC and you can figure that the maximum heating bill is around $160. during that time the AUX heat coils were on for maybe 1/4 of the time for the month.

besides i'm going from a 9-10 SEER unit to a 13. again, i have to trust (please, no disparaging remarks) the contractor based on his reputation.

[<kjpro]

"too longer to recover"

What are you referring too?

[gwa000]

too long to recover the initial costs for more expensive (e.g. higher SEER) equipment based on our electric rates.

[Geoman]

Good Luck KJ, he missed the complete message of what I told him and went with Stormies idea that larger coils = less humidity..go fiquire

[gwa000]

except for the fact that in response to my question of:

"what i&#39;m c "Not a problem IF they do a proper CFM check and tune the VS Blower into the proper CFM according to AIR "

based on the THAT response along with "Stormin&#39;s" whom some people seem to diminish WITHOUT providing ANY sort of USEFUL information themselves ("Uh, he said he was from Rochester") i felt comfortable that the contractor knows what he is doing. after all, he lives in the area, knows the weather, has seen the house, knows what our village electric rates are, has a good reputation, been in the business for 35+ years, had his own business for 20+ years, is a member of the BBB, no outstanding complaints against him, etc.

coupled with the fact that different contractors have sized my house at between 2.5 and 3 tons i find it amazing that you would suggest a 4 ton unit based on my electric rates. jeez, a guy down the street has something like a 3000 sq. ft. house and he only has a 4 ton unit.

granted, a higher tonnage and SEER (from what i learned) will result in cost savings but i also need to estimate the payback based on the additional cost and the life expectancy of the equipment.

[Stormin Mormon]

I&#39;d believe a live and in person contractor before I believed a poster on usenet. Unless I had some reason to think the contractor was incorrect.

[<kjpro]

Re-read Geoman&#39;s post... specifically this quote...

"I would suggest however that you look into a two speed unit. Possibly a 4 ton two stage unit with a VS, this will allwo a much lower balance point on heating before back up/AUX heating starts. It WILL Cost more, but it may be well worth it."

The SEER has nothing to do with the balance point or COP, while in the heating mode. Which is what you&#39;d be using MOST of the time. Would you rather run a 2 stage heat pump or electric backup? Don&#39;t tell me that your utility rates/heating cost are cheap, as the difference does add up in 15-20 years! Using a 2 stage HP to lower your balance point is common sense.

[<kjpro]

Yeah, I&#39;d like to see one document that states having a larger coil increases humidity removal.

ALL of the tech data I have, shows the S/T being the same!

[Geoman]

Yep, Chris is right, listen to him. He knows all there is about V. S units.

Kjpro, don&#39;t give this original poster any more info, let him loose thousands over the next 20 years, what do we care.

Hey Chris, why not explain to him WHY the 3 Ton V.S is better than a regular

2.5 ton air handler. AND EXPLAIN why I mentioned the 4 ton two stage verses the 2.5 single stage.

CHRIS, HERES YOUR CHANCE BUDDY, TELL HIM HOW TO KNOW IF THE CONTRACTOR IS TUNING IN THE HEAT PUMP!!! I want to see if you know your stuff buddy. Explain to him the 47 degree listing in ARI, then tell him HOW to check for proper CFM and enthalpy. We really want to know about this.

Oh, BTW original poster, I said the 3 ton was the correct size with VS. As a matter of fact, you could go to a 3.5 single speed and its still listed in ARI.

Hey Chris, another Question, what does ARI stand for and who owns them and what do they do? If it takes you more than a day to answer then I know you have to Google everything.

Chris, you continue to amaze me, every time I start to stand up for you shit on me and everyone else. Kiss my ass Chris and don&#39;t reply to any of my posts, I&#39;ve gotten to the point that if I met you personally you would be on your way to your little deserted planet.

Rich

[<kjpro]

Now you can take your HP questions and shove them straight up your ass!

That wasn&#39;t my only post and I *DID* post USEFUL information!

You&#39;re a f****ng moron, you come in here thinking you know something, when all you want to do is take the advice from the biggest hack in the country (Chris AKA Stormin Moron). Some of us have been in the business and have posted here for years. We ALL know what kind of hack Stormin is and whether you&#39;re smart enough to figure that out isn&#39;t our problem.

Now, as Noon-Air would say, go piss up a rope!

[<kjpro]

Yeah, well, most Usenet posters are not as incompetent as you, Chris!

[<kjpro]

After his last post... he can kill over and die, for all I care.

So, consider it done!

[gwa000]

no, i know very little hence the reason i came to this newsgroup seeking some objective and professional information regarding my question. yet i see Geoman and KJ make accusations about incompetence, that if i don&#39;t listen to THEIR advice that i&#39;m an idiot, etc. i&#39;d be curious if you guys own your own business and if so could you tell me what YOUR credentials are. in fact, if you are so good tell me the name of your business. i would love to see if you have any complaints registered in the BBB.

and even if you are the best HVAC guys in the world i can&#39;t imagine you actually dealing with people with the attitude that you both have. with the way you deal with questions in a newsgroup, i would guess any complaints that your customers (if you have any) may have you would just tell them "that they are f****ng morons and that they should go piss up a rope".

so... tell me the price difference between the 2.5 ton heat pump with a 3 ton evaporator and a 2 stage / 4 ton unit if you were the contractor?

but most importantly, enlighten me with your credentials, experience, and the name of your business. i would love to Google it.

[Bubba]

...and you got the advice free which is exactly what you expected to pay for it so shut the f*ck up and quit your bitchin, whinnin and complainin&#39;.

So you&#39;re saying the truth hurts being an idiot? Boo Hoo for you.

yes, lots of us in here own our own business and we carry all the insurance, licenses and everything else needed. Remember that when you see your next bill from one of us and you want to whine so more because of how costly it is to send a service man and truck to your door.

Absolutely a spotless record here with the BBB although they are no real prize to judge against. My business name? Screw you. You are exactly the type I try to avoid.

Maybe, in fact, its really just you? Stick that in your pipe and smoke it. While you&#39;re at it, you can also go suck on the bitter end of that rope.

Why in the hell do you think anyone would give you anything now? Hold on, let me go get Stormys boulder for you.

Ive got something you can google till your hearts delight. Open wide you dipshit. Bubba

[Joseph]

I wasn&#39;t paying attention but I&#39;ll bet you got the answer, you just have to read and heed. Just how would the BBB help you with your problem, not likely, no one ever checks the BBB until after they got screwed?

Don&#39;t forget to suck on the bitter end...

Ask someone who is going to sell you one, they&#39;ll be happy to give you the price quotes.

Where the heck do you think you are? You are not our customer, DUH! This is not the best place to get help with your problems, you might want to go to "alt.home.repair". Some people just invite ridicule by their very nature, Stormy may be the one you need to get your advice from.

Joseph