"Imagine a place so saturated with toxic, cancer-causing chemicals that it's in the dirt people walk on, the air they breathe - even the blood that pumps through their veins.
The 24,000 people living in Anniston, Ala., don't have to imagine this. Many of them are living it. In fact, they have been living it for decades - they just didn't know it. The company responsible didn't tell them, and neither did the Environmental Protection Agency."
"Dave Gower" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@magma.ca:
Why? Who's misleading whom? They said it was safe back then, and they are saying it's safe now. Why should we believe them (Monsanto)? Change the formula a bit, make some more money, 70 years later, say "oops sorry, we didn't know about that, here's some chump change".
What's funny is that all these health agencies still can't say if PCB's actually (not *probably*) cause cancer or not, despite there not being any "debate" in the blah blah scientific community and useless government bodies:
Carpenter is also an expert on PCBs and says every national and international health agency in the world lists PCBs as a probable human carcinogen.
"There is evidence in humans consistent with the conclusion that they cause cancer," says Carpenter, who adds that PCB exposure increases the risk of almost all major diseases, including heart disease and diabetes. "Within the objective scientific community and within the government bodies, there is no debate at all."
"David J Bockman" wrote in news:0MJ4b.4072$NF5.2996 @nwrddc01.gnilink.net:
And considering the historic trackrecord of the evidence presented by MS in this case and in the case of RU it is very much relevant. See also post by Salty Thumb.
I think we should let our governements revoke all approvings to Monsanto. In fact, I think the company should be closed down, the CEO's jailed and then lets take our time and find out if they did anything right.
It is entirely apropos of the fact that this is a company like Monsanto. Which now has a record of poisoning the environment, of covering up what they know about the toxicity, using the courts to slow remediation and apparently even having control over the EPA. Take a look at their political contributions list. That is what
60 m>I have never heard of any PCB's in Roundup. Have you? If not, I expect an
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the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
It's amazing how little information is in that article. It looks like a piece written to garner support for the town's pending lawsuit, but afraid to actually say anything outright lest they get sucked into the lawsuit.
It's got nothing to do with "believing" Monsanto. The point here is that the article quoted is irrelevant to "recent discussions" on this newsgroup. Roundup has no PCBs. The article was about PCBs.
The original post was intended to deceive. Now who has the credability problem?
I will continue to point out your ignorant, agenda-driven drivel as much as I want.
"rec-gardens" is a newsgroup devoted to helping people with home gardening issues, not debate industrial history or public policy. Those topics should be taken to the appropriate newsgroups i.e. ones that start with "sci" or "soc". They are off-topic here.
I know that when USED AS RECOMMENDED it works just fine in my yard.
That's the quasi-religious agenda again. Monsanto (and Dupont, Dow etc) are satans.
As I said in another reply, such social agendas are off-topic for this newsgroup. The safety of Round-up is a valid topic, but can only be answered by reference to personal experience and bio-chemistry. Not being a bio-chemist, I quote my personal experience. Bio-chemists say it is safe WHEN USED AS RECOMMENDED.
"Dave Gower" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@magma.ca:
Fine, you don't want to believe the article is relevant to "recent discussions" - I'll make it relevant:
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Today, parts of Anniston are so contaminated that residents have been
Do not grow vegetables from soil imported from Anniston. Use discretion when using soil or water from or near former PCB chemical factories. Be aware of ecological indicators of high PCB whether they are thin bird shell eggs or incontinent pets. Polychlorinated biphenyls are persistent chemicals that do not readily degrade through natural processes but are readily distributed by the same.
probably not, it is made by Monsanto who does not put consumers first, monsanto, you know, the people made PCBs since 1930 and still is fighting having to clean up after themselves, the ones poisoned a whole town, hid what they knew, when they knew it.
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formatting link
the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make.
snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.xx.com wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news-server.wi.rr.com:
and 3., who spent 10 million on lawyers to not to have to pay a few million in damage rewards to the ppl who lost their health and maybe relatives because of the poisoning.
Most of us are not that stupid. We know that an issue from another time, about another chemical, when the company was run by different managers, faced different laws, was operating with different scientific knowledge, cannot be used to answer a question about a garden chemical sold in 2003.
You bunch are obviously abysmally ignorant of how corporations work (and of course you would be if you relied on 60 Minutes for your information). Monsanto and other primary producers do not normally sell directly to the public. They sell to other companies; wholesalers, manufacturers, exporters, processors. As such they are dealing with hard-nosed and often very savvy purchasing managers and agents. Such professionals ask tough and precise scientific questions about the safety and other characteristics of the materials they purchase. This is especially true of wholesalers, whose employers directly face legal consequences for selling harmful substances.
Another elementary bit of information. Companies cannot "lie", or indeed make utterances of any type. Only people can do that. The fact that you anthropomorphise an abstract legal entity in such a way shows how infantile your delusions are. But even using your words, any company that "lied" to professional purchasers would be dead in a year.
Fine but how does this relate to "current discussion" on this newsgroup? I just did a Google search and since 1998 not one person has posted asking about the wisdom of using PCBs in his or her garden.
"Dave Gower" wrote in news:vSednZ snipped-for-privacy@magma.ca:
It relates to the current discussion because I am reiterating the point made in the link of the initial post of the presence of PCBs in the soil of Anniston. Do you know what gardeners use soil for, Dave? Now if there isn't any further interest in discussing that fact, then the thread should end here. If there are any tangental lines of interest, then they may proceed at the discretion of the users of the group. If you find the tangentals to be woefully off-topic, I suggest you deal that problem locally, viz. learn how to operate your newsreading software; or if you feel the need, complain to the address listed in the "X-Complaints-To:" header of the offending post(s).
I seriously doubt anyone here needs you or anyone else to police the group by insisting on what is or what is not 'on-topic'.
If anybody disagrees with that, feel free to voice you support by adding "Dave Gower You Are My Hero Thank You For Saving Me From The Evil Crazy Radical Lunatic Organic Hippie Anti-business Did I Mention Evil Nutjob Salinated Disembodied Finger Crackpot Crazy Rodent-loving Freak-shows!"
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