I have about a dozen "semi-dwarf" fruit trees, each planted 12 feet apart.
Does anyone have experience with such trees? Did I plant them too close
Also, when initially planting them as bare root trees, how severely should
they be pruned? And once they start to bud out, is it too late to prune
On Tue, 28 Mar 2006 08:27:51 -0800, "Zootal" <nousenetspam at dead ice
dot us> wrote:
This ought to help out. You may want to do a search on fruit trees in
your state. This should be consistent across most of North America:
By this, the trees should be 20 to 25 feet apart. First year is
recommended to prune to three sprigs.
I think this Dave Wilson Nursury is way out of line with their recommendations.
Dwarfing rootstock IS the best way to control tree size. Excessive pruning as
suggests results in a butchered tree with no shape and much retarded fruit
Just because he's running a nursery, and has a busy webpage, DOES NOT
mean he know what is "right". I've read a lot of bad suggestions on
DAVE'S page. Sounds like Bill is running his mouth too. (so am I ...)
It means he's good at marketing.
Severly pruning a tree, repeatedly, will lower the production, and be
LOTS of extra work.
There are a lot of shady used car salesmen selling junkers out there who
quite successful. Staying in business is not a recommendation.
A full size tree will not fit into most backyard orchards. If it does,
there is a lot of
work to keep it trimmed down to size. That means jumping up and down a
to trim it, spray it, harvest it, etc.
I read the article and this guy is way out of line.
Really? And your words of wisdom are so much more to be believed than a
company who's been in the nursery business since 1938? Why?
Gmail and Google Groups. This century's answer to AOL and WebTV.
I still think the nursery is giving out poor advice.
Their 'Backyard Orchard Culture' lays out things which do not make sense. If I
wanted a small tree, why would I buy a big growth tree and chop the hell out of
That's why there are rootstocks that produce trees as small as 6 feet high, and
this nursery sells them. Planting more than one tree in a hole is another
that results in several trees competing with each other and possibly strangling
to death. My knowledge base is not just my own, but is somewhat of a consensus
of the opinion of the many members of the fruit growing club of which I am an
member. This nursery may sell good trees and rootstocks, but they are giving the
wrong messages on how to plant and maintain them.
Why don't you just not go off defending someone you say doesn't need
Read your own drivel. I don't care what your oppion of Dvae's Garden
is. There is lots of advice which does not follow proven horticultural
Plus it ruins the looks of trees, like apples. Peaches may be an exception
to a heavy
initial pruning of the leader to get the tree to sprawl more to aid in
" email@example.com" wrote:
if that were true, espailering wouldn't work... and
espailered fruit trees have been around for centuries because
it *does* work. no, you can't go pruning off all the fruiting
branches, but severe pruning as on that page will allow
production in small areas. yes, it's a lot of work learning
the proper techniques, but if tou want an orchard & only
*have* a tiny yard, it *will* work. you learn what you need to
get the results you want. isn't that how most things in life
espalier is not used for commercial production. it is decorative and production
severely cut down. Ingrid
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Zone 5 next to Lake Michigan
After a tree has been trained as a espalier it will not need
"excessive" pruning. But such tree forms were one of the reason
dwarfing rootstocks were investigated and used.
And yes, I have seen espalied full size apple trees. I didn't come
here to argue. My my my...
hapy gardening is happy gardening. It ain't 1984 no more, this
is a Brave New World.
baHBBB bbsmcn (I like lopping)
And I'm sure that I'm entitled to state my opinion. The fact that he is in
no endorsement that he is giving out good advice. His theories on dwarfing
way out of line with common knowledge in universities and research stations.
check the web on how much research is put into dwarf rootstocks and how many
huge numbers of them are being used by fruit growers throughout the world. I
been growing dwarf fruit trees for almost 20 years and have not seen any of the
problems he claims are inherent in their nature. It's true a dwarf tree may only
be twenty years or more, whereas a standard tree can live much longer. What he
to mention is that standard trees are much more difficult to maintain and
and take longer to yield their first crop. By the way, what is your expertise in
matters or are you just defending the poor guy?
Same as yours. I have grown and am presently growing semidwarf and dwarf
fruit trees. I've tried his method; it works. Do the trees compete for
resources? Yes. Does pruning them as he suggests keep there production down?
Yes. The whole Idea is to keep the trees small and managable with a
manageable amount of fruit. If you have a small yard and want a variety of
fruit without having to throw or give most of away because you can't use it
this is one way to go. If you've got a couple of acres, by all means, spread
them out. Just be prepared for all the fruit you're going to get.
The OP was asking if he had enough spacing for his trees. I posted a
reference to show that trees can be planted closer than the spacing he had
used. Merely that. Last I looked, universities and research stations were
much more interested in helping farmers and agribusiness that they were the
backyard gardener. You probably don't think much of square foot gardening
either, do you?
Gmail and Google Groups. This century's answer to AOL and WebTV.
Not by pruning, but by selecting the proper rootstock.
In this case, the technology helps both for somewhat different purposes.
The ease of maintenance helps the commercial people as much as the home
gardener. The two groups need not be at cross purposes.
You are trying very hard to stereotype me. I do practice square foot
but I fail to see the connection here. We both agree on the benefits of
dwarfing rootstock, but you were defending this Dave Wilson Nursery who
thinks summer pruning is the only way to control tree spacing in the home
orchard. A friend of mine has a small city lot and has almost 100 dwarf
on M27 rootstock in his backyard (they are only about 6 feet tall). Check
out his backyard on www.midfex.org. Dave Wilson Nursery
even lists the characteristics of M27 rootstock and comes to this strange
conclusion anyways. Summer pruning is mainly used to open up a tree and rid
it of suckers and crossed branches, not size control. Severly pruning a
tree will produce an ugly tree and cut down yield appreciably. Fruit
should be controlled by thinning, not pruning.
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