Rototilling

[Billy]

I prefer no-till "Lasagna" gardening, or "Sheet Mulching" as others call it. To my way of thinking it is the best way to garden, and it requires less exertion.

[bullthistle]

I composted long before today's "experts" knew what it was and only a lazy person shies away from rototilling. So how do today's "expert" put in a lawn. Lay cardboard and newspaper across the empty space for a year then seed? Todays "experts" have an answer for everything, that is taking shortcuts to save the environment.

[Billy]

There are those of a different opinion on rototilling. Why shouldn't their concerns be allowed to be expressed?

"A lawn in preindustrial times trumpeted to all that the owner possessed enough wealth to use some land for sheer ornament, instead of planting all of it to food crops.

And close-mowed grass proclaimed affluence, too: a herd of sheep large enough to crop the lawn uniformly short. These indicators of status whisper to us down the centuries. By consciously recognizing the influence of this history, we can free ourselves of it and let go of the reflexive impulse to roll sod over the entire landscape."

You are in favor of saving the environment, aren't you? How would you do it differently?

Please, continue.

If you like weekends (8 hr./day & 40 hr./week), then thank a labor union. They paid for it in blood. Real working class heros.

Taxes Citizen$ ---> Government ---> Corporations ---> Top 1%

[EVP MAN]

I till a new bed the first year and then turn it over the following years with a spading fork. A tiller chops up way too many earthworms which I like in my beds.

Rich

[Nad R]

Tilling is a good way in my book for first time ground prepping. After that no more tilling is needed ever. Be it for new lawn or garden.

[Brooklyn1]

White_Noise [e-mail]:

[bullthistle]

Crackpots come in all shapes, colors and sizes who assume they have "all" the answers. Meet many wouldn't be a friend to any.

[Billy]

Bull, why do you use so many words to say nothing?

"The philosopher who said that work well done never needs doing over never weeded a garden." - Ray D. Everson

Are you better off than you were 30 years ago? 10 years ago? 1 year ago?

Thank Reaganomics/Thatcherism, a.k.a. Voodoo economics :O(

[Billy]

"Double digging" is certainly to be recommended for a new garden, as it speeds up the development of the bed, but it isn't necessary otherwise. Rototillers create a hardpan, a layer of compacted soil, at the bottom of the tilled zone. This may be acceptable for lawns, but for gardens it is advised to break up this compacted zone. Insert a broad fork or digging fork deeply into the soil at 6? intervals to break up any compaction and to allow air and water below the depth of tillage. Breaking this up with a fork permits the roots of plants to grow deeper than the tilled area, and also allows plants to find water and nutrients deep in the soil. Loosening allows for better percolation of rain water and irrigation.

[Billy]

"Double digging" is certainly to be recommended for a new garden, as it speeds up the development of the bed, but it isn't necessary otherwise. Rototillers create a hardpan, a layer of compacted soil, at the bottom of the tilled zone. This may be acceptable for lawns, but for gardens it is advised to break up this compacted zone. Insert a broad fork or digging fork deeply into the soil at 6 inch intervals to break up any compaction and to allow air and water below the depth of tillage. Breaking this up with a fork permits the roots of plants to grow deeper than the tilled area, and also allows plants to find water and nutrients deep in the soil. Loosening allows for better percolation of rain water and irrigation.

[Gunner]

Damn, if your not the pot calling the kettle black!

[Gunner]

...leastwise that is what ya read in your eco-fringy blogs right?

and as for the worm mulch you so worry about , your chickens kill more earthworms than that tiller will.

[Bill who putters]

As I understand it. Tilling or plowing at a constant depth will create a hardpan. That¹s why God created a chisel plow. Some folks try not to create one in the first place that is cheap and eco-warrior friendly.

[Brooklyn1]

Your understanding is incorrect, it's not even logical. What you refer to as a "hardpan" is not created by tilling, the more compacted soil was *always* there, it's a matter of relativity; tilled vs untilled and the point where one ends and the other begins... there is no logical way that tilling will *create* "hardpan" below the tilled depth, only if the "hardpan" faeries dance a jig below ground while wearing vibratory boots. If the soil has poor drainage due to compaction that's a whole nother issue... perhaps one should till deeper, or farm a different location. Another thing to consider, annuals do not have roots that go very deep nor should they, which is why farmers plow/till only to a certain depth each year depending on which crop, and in fact what you call "hardpan' helps to retain more nutrients and moisture for the crop.

[Gunner]

As "MAY" fit your thinking, right? Change "will..." to "might..." and you just might be correct, perhaps, maybe and yet, still never be.

I find no fault with what Sheldon says here. The fat butt being pulled along behind that tiller is going to compact that soil more than those blades ever will in your little pea patch in the world. Your world just doesn't fit mine BWP, regardless of how many times you and Bro. bill tell me it must be so.

Too many variables that prohibit such an overly broad generalization.

[Nad R]

You are correct, rototiling does create a hardpan layer. For a lawn it may not make much of a difference since grass only goes about 3 inches down. For a garden soil a foot is better. If your soil is already compacted and hard as a rock tilling is going to be better that a shovel by hand and risk a heart attack. Double digging is the best way for small gardens. If your garden is large or soil already compacted, rototilling can make life easier. If the first six inches is broken up, one could the take a garden fork and poke holes in the bottom of the hardpan layer.

If the soil is already compacted, worms are not like to be around to begin with. When the soil becomes looser the worms may come around more.

[David Hare-Scott]

I agree breaking ground is the only time I have ever used motorised equipment or dug more than 10cm down, normally I rake in manures etc once or twice a year. I just don't see the need for all this digging.

I have no idea what is achieved by frequent tilling, I suppose it gives a feeling of neatness and uniformity to see all that fluffy soil so regularly disturbed. In a garden you will grow much more for your efforts if you spend less time on neatness and uniformity.

David

[David Hare-Scott]

No that's what the local agronomist tells me can happen in some circumstances. Sustainable and traditional (for want of a better word) garden management practices are not all eco-fringy there is good reason and sound science behind much of it, there is also some like moon planting and biodynamics that is well meaning nonsense.

David

[Gunner]

My point again, David.... CAN, MAY, PERHAPS, COULD, MIGHT ....all the rest of the weasel words for all those many instances when ... may, can, might, should, maybe, kinda, perhaps... don't work.

Take a step back and read what you and dyslectic dan write here, your preaching teaching. Then you express such surprise, positively miffed, by the fact that you do not SEE the need for such work.

" the local agronomist tells me can happen in some

Well, then it must be true, right? =85.Have your agronomist call my agronomist and they can discuss why there maybe, perhaps, could, possibly be a difference of opinion as to what is sustainable and traditional or as we like to say, BEST PRACTICE=85I assume your local guy/gal knows all about soil horizons and how each of us garden? For me, I want some OM mixed into my B horizon if that is alright with you. Its good for MY soil, and I don=92t have this problem of a roto induced plow sole you boys keep telling me definitely will maybe happen.

[Gunner]

Then you didn't do it right.