Rose Bushes ?

[James]

I am not much of a gardner at all, but at our remote mountain cabin, I have had success with annuals, Rhododendrums, impatiens, marigolds, and the like.

I have never tried to grow roses, because I have always read that they are very care-intensive, and hard to grow. Not living here fulltime, I just have never thought I could provide the care such as spraying for insects, etc.

My son recently bought a used cottage house in the mountains. In his back yard there is a big clump of a rose bush that must be 25 years old or more. I don't think it has been trimmed in many, many years. It has real long, wild branches, some of which go off horizontally for 10-12 feet. He bought the house in the fall, at which time the wild, lanky bushes had no roses on them. I told him that if it were mine I would cut the entire maze back until it was 4 or 5 feet off the ground. He didn't heed my advice.

Well today I saw this bush-maze again. It is literally covered all over with beautiful roses, and it has dozens of more buds getting ready to produce !!

My main point.... this monstrosity has had **no care** in many years. I am as sure as I can be that it has not been trimmed in over 10 years, and it has not been sprayed for insects, etc in at least several years, because the house was unoccupied for that long.

So, what are the chances that I could plant some rose bushes at my cabin, and that they would survive with little or no care ? I am here quite a bit in the summer, but not from week to week.

I know there are many species, etc of roses, but what would be your guess as to what kind of roses these are ? (They are mostly pink in color). Is there such a thing as a wild rose bush ?

Any comments or advice would be appreciated !!

James

[JoeSpareBedroom]

When I moved into my home, there were three rose bushes with flower shapes like these:

was able to enjoy about six flowers from these bushes in a period of two years because the deer keep munching on the new buds. And the bushes were constantly fighting with some sort of disease. I remove the bushes last year.

Last summer, I ran across a gorgeous planting of Rosa rugosa:

leaves were perfect - not a spot on them. I asked the park worker if they were sprayed. He said these plants got nothing but mulch and a smile. He also said the deer tend to leave them alone. A month ago, I found a white version at a local garden center. The owner confirmed that they're pretty much trouble free in terms of disease & deer attacks. He pointed to a row of them that have been growing alongside his driveway for several years, and said that if snow plowing and road salt didn't kill them, nothing would, short of a napalm attack.

Unless you must have the hybrid tea rose flower shape, I'd look for Rosa rugosa for disease resistance. And the leaves are terrific. I believe what keeps the deer away is the fact that the stems are prickly/thorny

*everywhere*, right up to the bottoms of the flowers. Planting the one I bought was a real adventure.

[brooklyn1]

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message news:C3jSl.134794$ [e-mail]...

> I was able to enjoy about six flowers from these bushes in a period of two

I have about a dozen rosa rugusa stands on my property. Nothing seems to bother them, nothing eats them, they are much too thorny. They flower all summer but they are not the type of flower you'd want for cut roses, certainly not with those deadly stems, nor do they last very long once cut, maybe 24 hours at best before all the petals have dropped. Rosa rugusa is excellent protection for wildlife, many song birds and small critters make their homes among these thorny bushes... but I would not recommend planting them in the typical rose garden, you don't want to mess with them without significant protection (think ballistics cloth). One word of caution I'll offer, if you decide to prune them be sure to glove up and don your best armor and protect your face, and do not leave any cuttings no matter how small lying about for later, the drier they become the more deadly... their thorns will penetrate the soles of the best hunting boot, you've been warned. I don't recommend planting rosa rugosa unless you have some serios acrerage and then only at like the edges of a forest, not under any circumstances in a garden you intend to cultivate. I have some along side areas where I mow, once a season I get dressed in my fire hose cloth garments and go at them with a 20" machete, then I make like fifty passes over the cuttings with my mulching mower until the thorny twigs are like pesto. Rosa rugosa is not for your typical surburban yard.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Bullshit.

[FarmI]

Some roses are care intensive, others are as tough as old boots and will survive with no care for decades in abandoned cottages in just the way you have described.

And in the case of some types of roses, that advice you gave would have been very wrong.

I presume you are in the USA? If you are, than I have no idea what this rose could be, but if you are in Australia there is a fair chance that it would be "Dorothy Perkins". I have read that the US has one of the wild roses called "Cherokee Rose" that is almost as feral as "Dorothy" is in Oz, but since I've never seen one or know what it looks like, I can't say if it could be that or not.

You've asked a question along the lines of 'how long is a piece of string' so it's hard to give you an answer, so I would recommend that you head off to a library and find a book called "Roses" by Roger Phillips and Martin Rix. That book will tell you all you need to know to pick the sort of roses that I'm now going to write about (and you can see plenty of pics so you know about the form of the bush and the flower).

Avoid any really 'modern' roses, so don't try any of the newer hybrid tea roses or you'll end up disappointed as these are the high care group.

Having said that, there are many early (19th century) hybrids that also may serve your purpose but local knowledge of your situation would be needed to say which might work.

Basically you should be looking for what is called 'species' roses and this includes the rugosas. As others have said, the rugosas are gorgeous and tough but they aren't the only ones that need little care.

I love the little old pimpinella roses (they are called Burnet roses) but they are generaly small roses. Some of these have been hydridised and (I think) they might suit.

As a start, you might like to read this as it gives some idea of the hugeness of your question but it gives you and idea of the type of roses you should be looking at if you don't want high maintenance roses:

[Phisherman]

To look their best roses require regular maintenance. I love roses, but only have three and that is enough work for me. I had wild rose bushes but removed them--they may look okay in a natural unkept garden.

[brooklyn1]

"Phisherman" wrote:

I feel the same, roses are a lot of work, I have only one hybridized rose, it was here when I moved in, and even that one requires constant care... every sap sucking insect on the planet seems to find it and it's a favorite of Japanese beetles. At my last house I had planted a dozen rose bushes before I knew how much work they were... over the twenty years I was there I gave them all away, I used to beg visiters to take them.

Exactly, I would not recommend wild rosa rugosa for the typical surburban lot sized garden unless one has the space and/or doesn't mind their unkempt habit... they are also very dangerous if one has young kids scampering about, even old kids running into that thorny bush can end up in the ER for a protracted stay, I think it's far worse than barbed wire. If you fall into one you'd likely need to lie there in excruciating pain and keep still, and hope someone comes by with a jaws of life pruning tool to get you out.

I realize now that I have more wild rosa rugosa growing here than I at first realized... I can see three huge ones from my widow, each like 15' tall and as wide, in the hedgerow between my property and my neighbor... I have another lower growing one by my creek out front but I need to go outside to see it, and there are quite a few more scattered about at the edges of the wooded areas. Every year I have to hack those back where I mow with a machete or I wouldn't be able to mow a straight line, they grow fast and jut out, they'd rip me up if I mowed too near. I keep telling myself that I should get out there with a shovel and pick axe to remove them, but they make wonderful wildlife cover so they win out. I don't think their flowers are very rose like, they have few petals (just one skimpy row) and they don't last more than a day on the plant.. And unless the plant is left unpruned it won't flower very much at all... the parts I cut back don't flower until the following year, and they only flower on the very upper parts, so unless you're willing to let them have their full growth they won't flower, all you'll have is a bush of deadly thorns. Many of the hybridized roses are grafted to wild rosa ragosa root stock, so it's important to remove those suckers before the entire plant resorts back to wild. Wild rosa rugosa is one of the plants typically suggested in the mix for wildlife habitant reclaimation programs... it's really not something one wants as specimen plant. Oh, and yellow jackets love to make their nest in the ground under a wild rosa rugosa, not a good mix in ones backyard.

[James]

Thank you, FarmI for the good info !!!

James

[FarmI]

I hope I've been of some small assistance.

You asked a question about a group of plants that has always fascinated me for their beauty, their history and the fact that as you've found in the case of your son's rose, can survive and thrive even with no care.

After posting I thought of many other things I should have written so I did a Net hunt and found some sites that may help you in your quest -some of these sites are in Oz, some in the US, but it may help you with the terms used when asking about old roses so the sites may help you find a source for the sort of roses you need.

The US will have rosarian societies who will have worked hard to save old varieties and keep them in cultivation. Sadly most nurseries don't stock these plants and an active hunt from specialist suppliers is needed to find them but I'm sure that these US suppliers are like those I know of in Oz and will ship them to you bare rooted at the right time of the year. Sadly many people don't know about the range of roses and when they hear the word 'rose', they only see in their mind's eye a 'rose' that looks like a hybrid tea. They are missing out on such a rich field of flower types.

It also occurred to me that, as in Oz, famous old houses like Jefferson's 'Monticello' would have heritage garden plants growing and looking at what is in similar old US gardens would be a good source of info on these old plants.

David Austin who is an English rose breeder has produced roses which are described as being 'old'. Don't buy them for the situation you described as they need more care than you would want to give them. You could take a cutting off your roses rose though and that is an easy way of reproducing his gorgeous rose.

Anyway, here's the cites (BTW are you also known as 'Jim" and post under another addy in another newsgroup I infest?)

It's a fascinating area, but be warned, old roses can become addictive.

[FarmI]

If you think that, then you don't know about the whole range of roses that are available. Many roses need no care at all.

It is the roses that need no care that this thread is about.

[brooklyn1]

That's right... wild roses are the only roses that need no care, instead they need beware. Um, we were doing just fine, you're the one who introduced the fancy schmacy roses into this thread, so go sit on a thorn while you repent..

[enigma]

"brooklyn1" wrote in news:zGRSl.826$ [e-mail]:

that's not true. there are many antique roses that thrive without being fussed over... the rugosas are just *one* type of antique rose. from your discription the roses in your field that you are whining about aren't rugosas anyway. rugosas have a lot of short thorns, not huge tearing daggers. they're probably multifloras. i wouldn't call the old roses fancy schamcy. they're sturdy, disease resistant, grow on their own roots, & can survive just fine in cold winter areas (most old roses are hardy to zone 5, but several types are hardy to zone 3). fancy roses are the hybrid teas that die if you look at them wrong & have no fragrance anyway, but the florist trade loves them. lee

[JoeSpareBedroom]

How dare you question Sheldon!?!? What nerve.

[Bill who putters]

We have a few David Austin Roses that handle shade and neglect.

Bill who places corn meal about when I think of it for black spot.

[FarmI]

Sheldon, you're an idiot and it's been established by now that you have the brains of a jellyfish.

If you knew anything at all on the subject, you wouldn't write such stupid things.

[FarmI]

The David Austin roses are lovely roses and (generally) they don't need a lot of care but that also is sometimes not true. Some of his roses are much tougher than others, but the certainly aren't as touchy as bloody "Julia's Rose" whihc I'd love to have but which I know I cna't have in my situation.

David Austin's roses wouldn't suit the situation the OP described however. He needs the really tough old roses.

What is corn meal and how does it work to stop black spot?

[brooklyn1]

You never grew a rose, you never will... YOU NEVER GREW ANYTHING... YOU ARE A DIRTY STINKING LIAR, A TOTAL FRAUD! Farm1 = FAKE1 has never ever been a hundred miles of a farm.

[FarmI]

Thank you Sheldon for letting me know that I've irritated you intensely. I'm very pleased to have managed to get right up your left nostril.

[JoeSpareBedroom]

Sheldon, somewhere in your room is a button you can push to call the big burly male nurse who will strap you down and medicate you again.

Push the button, Sheldon.

[brooklyn1]

The typical AVOIDANCE response of yet another LIAR who has NEVER grown anything.

Happy wild rugusa: