Organic pelleted Chicken manure

[ackeiyword]

Bought some organic pelleted chicken manure from B&Q, buy-one-get-one-free, seemed like a bargain. Have any of you had experience of using it and how beneficial is it?

[Chris]

What is B&Q, and where is it?

Chris

[David Hare-Scott]

Assuming you have the same product as is sold in these parts it is poultry manure (and nothing else) that has been dried and pelleted. This reduces the smell to a manageable level and makes it easier to handle. If it is truly organic it is made from chickens that are raised organically, that is fed 'organic' feed with no drugs etc. The difference between organic and non organic in this case is probably marginal.

It is an excellent source of nitrogen and phosphorus for fertilising your garden. It is quite strong and needs to be applied sparingly, you can always add more later in the summer but if you over dose you will burn plants, specially small seedling. It should be watered in after application.

David

[Billy]

Only in a very narrow minded sense. Everything that we do has a consequence. When you buy organic, you are also paying the feed producer to grow topsoil, and the chook rancher not to waste antibiotics. "With

80 percent of antibiotics in the U.S. going to livestock, antibiotic-resistant bacteria showing up in supermarket meat, and drug-resistant bacteria literally crawling off factory farms . . ."

So the choice is to pay for a better world, or leave it to somebody else, hopefully, to clean it up.

Other than that, they are nearly identical.

[Janet]

A "shed" chain in the UK, selling DIY and garden stuff.=20 Most gardenbanter posters are too dim to read the description=20 gardenbanter providees, of the usenet groups they post to; most of them=20 think they are posting on a website forum. So they have no clue they are=20 posting to an audience beyond the UK.

Janet

[David Hare-Scott]

That's what it is *supposed* to be. How do you know if the "organic" poop is the real thing? Even if it is according to label how do you know the organic producer is doing all the right things for the environment not merely satisfying the local labeling laws?

"With

Show me that these drugs are used in chicken farming, and end up in the manure, and survive the drying, and then enter the food chain in our produce if we put non-organic dried chook poo on our gardens. It may be so but I would like to see evidence before getting too excited.

I am not questioning that the world needs a degree of saving. I am questioning if using organic chook poo will do it.

What you say may be true (and it may not) but the OP already has the organic kind and asked about using it. Perhaps they also enjoy a sermon.

D

[Janet]

In article , [e-mail] says... How do you know if the "organic"

The OP enquirer was posting from the UK. In the UK there is tight national legislation on accurate labelling of goods for sale; and for the national accreditation and inspection of Organic farm production. Any member of the public can report a suspected transgression of either (costs nothing) and have it investigated by govt bodies who have a range of powers to inspect, halt fraudulent trading instantly, impound goods, impose fines, launch criminal charges etc. Naturally enough, it's in the interest of honest businesses to know their local competition and turn in faker rivals.

Janet.

[Chris]

Sounds like a good call. A fast Google scholar search turned up:

Himathongkham & Riemann 1999:

_Destruction of Salmonella typhimurium, Escherichia coli O157:H7 and Listeria monocytogenes in chicken manure by drying and/or gassing with ammonia._ FEMS Microbiology Letters 171:179-182.

Abstract:

"Escherichia coli O157:H7 and Listeria monocytogenes were able to grow for a period of 2 days in fresh chicken manure at 20=B0C with a resulting 1=962 log units increase in CFU; Salmonella typhimurium remained stable. Prolongation of the storage time to 6 days resulted in a 1=962 log decrease of S. typhimurium compared to the initial count and a 3=964 log decrease of E. coli O157:H7; the number of L. monocytogenes did not decrease below the initial. These changes were accompanied by an increase in pH and accumulation of ammonia in the manure. The destruction of the three microorganisms was greatly increased by drying the manure to a moisture content of 10% followed by exposure to ammonia gas in an amount of 1% of the manure wet weight; S. typhimurium and E. coli O157:H7 were reduced by 8 log units, L. monocytogenes by 4."

article is obviously not the whole story, but it seems it can be done with the right techniques.

Chris

[Billy]

I get the feeling that you didn't think this out very much, but thanks for the soap box ;O)

How do we know anything? How do we know that we aren't connected to the "Matrix"? How do we know we aren't dealing with a food chain that is being manipulated by an Ayn Rander, "greed is good", bloodsucker, who would put melamine and cyanuric acic in pet food or baby food for a couple of extra quid? All we can deal with is our intent.

I did say "organic", not faux organic, but it is a fair point. Criminality and antisocial behavior does exist, duh. If the agriculturalist merely satisfies the "organic" labeling laws, that is all that I ask of them. I have not the time to stare into their hearts for their motivation.

I trust that you believe that there are organic farmers that sell their products, and that some of those products may find their way to market, and if people purchase them, organic farmers will be encouraged to continue to grow more topsoil, and not foul the environment.

Boy, I'd hate to be that straw man. Makes me happy that I didn't say it ;O), but it is an interesting idea.

The subject is "what-do-you-get-when-you-buy-organic?". In addition to top soil, we can greatly reduce our exposure to antibiotic resistant bacteria, cause by the ubiquitous use of antibiotics on animals in feed lots, or battery cages.

[Billy]

Thanks for that insight.

Here in the States, the United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) fights tooth and nail to obscure the source of our food, and how it was produced. Only 1% of the imported food is inspected, and "Free-Market'ers" want to do away with labels, and inspectors, because it is considered a form of regulation and an imposition on the "free-market" (re: rigged market).

[Chris]

com

Not to mention the fact that Bill Clinton (who I generally liked) sent Al Gore (who I also generally liked) to Europe (France specifically) to try to strong-arm them into letting GM foods easy, unidentified passage into Europe. While I think some GM foods are good things (golden rice, for example) not identifying them as such is not good.

Chris

e conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagori= a

Try reading Matt Taibbi's book, _The Great Derangement_.

[Billy]

Thanks, I just ordered it from the library, along with Griftopia.

I also enjoyed his piece in "The RollingStone",

Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail? By  Matt Taibbi

one has to think carefully about the efficacy of fines as a punishment for a defendant pool that includes the richest people on earth ? people who simply get their companies to pay their fines for them. Conversely, one has to consider the powerful deterrent to further wrongdoing that the state is missing by not introducing this particular class of people to the experience of incarceration. "You put Lloyd Blankfein in pound-me-in-the-ass prison for one six-month term, and all this bullshit would stop, all over Wall Street," says a former congressional aide. "That's all it would take. Just once."

[Janet]

m.com

Under EU (and UK) legislation all GM foods must be labelled as such.

Janet

[Chris]

pam.com

Yes, and that's what Clinton sent Gore to Europe to try and fight. I am glad they lost. I just wish the USA regulators had the same backbone.

Chris

[Billy]

Too many wing-nuts want to believe that. I wouldn't encourage them. Today, if enough people say something, it's taken as a fact.