On Tue, 18 May 2004 12:26:56 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@netscapeSPAM-ME-NOT.net
News to me. Which ones?
Like everything pretty much? Common sense goes a long way.
That was the Japanese workers who drank roundup and died
from the dishliquid that it contains?
Same dishwashing liquid? Many kids are killed from dishwasher
detergent. Nasty stuff.
My, such informative rational language. Do you get many people taking
much notice of this hyperbole?
More intemperate language?
First up, it is most likely that the increase in allergic (asthma etc)
reactions is due to ultra-cleanliness from overuse of chemicals such
as disinfectants. Also paranoia about childhood diseases. I have two
middle aged nieces with asthma, and there is none in any other member
of the extended family. Hey Ho, their Mum is a neurotic cleanliness
You mean you don't look at the evidence?
Intemperate hyperbole won't convince me, sorry.
All say keep out of reach of children, so that should be a given.
Integrated Pest Management allows the use of these things. Hell,
Organics allows the use of that nasty copper fungicide.
What exactly was in this spray? Do we know? Maybe it was a totally
Not sure about "home use", but Agent Orange (or at least the 2 compoments)
WERE approved for commercial sale. "Orange" was just a 50-50 mix of 2-4-D
and 2-4-5-T. Both were sold and used in every corner of farm country.
Both are actually OK. It's the dioxen impurities that caused problems.
An 11 year old is a CHILD. And no responsible parent or gardener would
leave weed killers and other poisons in reach of kids. I mean c'mon, the kid
didn't even know what the hell they were spraying! The kid thought it was
insecticide, which is just as bad and something kids should not have access
to. I stand by what I said..the fact that the original poster lets his kids
have access to chemicals and poisons, and was freaking out about some stupid
plants instead of the fact his kid could have poisoned herself, shows he is
ignorant, irresponsible, and has seriously messed up priorities. So what if
a plant dies? You can replace it. But if your child dies......
Okay then, put the kids in hermetically sealed plastic bubbles and hide them
away from the cruel world full of evil nasty things. Is that wat you want?
Are you ever aware of when you cross the line from being protective to being
an overly obsessive nut?
If you had any sense at all, you would have checked the warning labels
before letting kids have easy access to the chemicals.
And if you knew anything at all about plants, you would have known that
plant auxins (weed killers) are not toxic in any way to animals or children.
Oh for cripes' sakes, get over yourself. You have absolutely NO idea
what the circumstances of this situation are beyond the fact that an 11
year old accidentally sprayed plants with ivy killer. Our kids have
been working in our gardens, WITH SUPERVISION, for years. They have, on
occasion, been allowed to spray weeds with herbicide. They are
extremely responsible and have respect for what they are doing and I
I also let my kids work with the horses on their own. I suppose in your
world I am irresponsible and a terrible parent to do so. But I prefer
to teach them well and trust their instincts - so far I've managed to
raise three children past the 11 year old mark without killing any of
This is a fascinating exchange.
I think it is possible that some people simply DON'T KNOW (no excuse for
them) that children are extremely sensitive to chemicals, and it can damage
them for life and/or kill them.
For example: how often do you hear about lead poisoning in adults? But we
probably are all, of all ages, sensitive to lead. Children, however, can be
permanently damaged by it.
So, the OP (and others) is so stupid they don't realize this. Let those of
us who are good with facts offer them citations where they can educate
themselves about these dangers. I can't help on that score--I never
remember where I learned things!
I suspect a troll here. But it is interesting to note that others think it
OK for kids to handle chemicals. Woe unto them.
So you are getting off on this thread, Betsy Wetsy?
Good for you. Glad we could entertain you, biatch.
Considering recent encounters with misbehaving children and their parents
who make no effort to control them, one would think that a few wouldn't be
missed by them or others who are forced to tolerate the obnoxious little
Sorry to hear about your permanent brain damage from lead poisoning. Maybe
now you will learn paint chips are not candy. Maybe not.
You obviously can't grasp the fact that everything we take into our bodies
Of course everything we take into our bodies are chemicals. The point is
that some chemicals are more dangerous to our bodies than others. Gee,
Cereus, you know this or you wouldn't be alive to rant. Or maybe you just
want everybody to be as crippled and deformed as you? ;-)
On Tue, 18 May 2004 17:24:55 -0400, Callen Molenda
Exactly my point. most children aren't stupid and if they are taught
properly most times they will make correct decisions. and we should
not criticize any one for how they rais their children unless they are
beating them or neglecting the care of a child too young to care for
them selvs like those idiots who leave kids home alone and then they
burn the house down. and that sort of thing.
For all we know the parent was standing right next to the kid when
they were spraying and just noticed after the fact that it was the
wrong chemical . And I don't think I'm a bad parent for leting my
children use house hold clleaners . I don't let them use coxic one s
of course but my son likes to help me clean the kitchen or windows
and he will run the vacume ( he likes to help and askes if he can )
I'm not letting him clean the toilet or tile in the bathroom or
anything like that but he is very helpful.
children need to learn to do things My kids help me cook and I let
them be near the stove under controled conditions .
I know lots of folks that couldn't make a hot dog if they didnt' have
a microwave Not my kids My son can almost bake a batch of chocolate
chip cookies by him self ALMOST
Oh how we forget that children used to apprentice in trades when they
were at the some times young age of seven. Not that I think that
seven year olds should be put to work but the average age for a forge
smith apprentice was exactly eleven years old
now days it is more like end of high school and up.
Kids need good examples and they learn from those examples.
Any way this is not a garden topic
anyone want to talk about gardening and not about bad parenting
I'm sure there is a news group for that since there is a news group
for everything else including .... well not going there
None of the rest of us have ever set something down and had it picked up
by our kids. (FYI, there are instructions on the container on what to do
if the chemicals come in contact with your skin.) Your response is way out
Yes, we all saw the sitcom where the baby died after secondary contact
with a garden spray but this is not a sitcom and we know nothing about
what happened except that a kid sprayed a plant with ivy killer.
Sue, do you have any children? If so, what are their ages?
I'll have to join the w(h)itch hunter posse ...
What is 11 yo, around 5th grade? Hopefully she can read, although she
may have just have been overzealous for wanting to help, lied about
mistaking for bug spray, the pretty picture of ivy on the bottle and
assumed it was for spraying on plants (which it is).
This is why all herbicides should have kid friendly warnings like "Elmo
says bad water make plants go poo-poo!" But that might just encourage
them. How about a cartoon plant with a death skull lying prone in a
cesspool of blood? Or you could just keep the stuff away until your kid
understands how to use the product properly?
Prepare your kids for a lifetime of not reading the useless instructions
on product labels which may have included such verbiage as "It is a
violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent
with its labeling."
-- Felonious Jail-Bird "it's not a crime unless you get caught and/or
are underage" Thumb
Maybe she did it on purpose as a protest against bad parents. Perhaps,
in a desperate appeal to the neighbourhood, the plucky little heroine
bravely spelled out "PLEASE SAVE MY SIBLINGS" in weedkiller.
What kind of plants? Garden transplants/seedlings? Ornamental or
vegetables? Or established plants of size?
How long ago were they sprayed? Have you taken any action since they
I'm not familiar with the "active ingredients" in ivy killer. What is
it, 24D, or what? Are the plants showing signs of damage, or are they
dead by now?
Many plants in my yard were accidentally s prayed with Round Up, some
died, some yellowed, but are still alive. Some were damaged last
year, but survived.
I once had a house plant that grew all twisted, and gnarled, I
personally felt it had a disease, but another thought it was showing
signs of 24D contamination. It never recovered.
The package should have given some sort of indication of what steps to
take if accidentally sprayed on desirable plants, usually hosing them
off immediately, but if 24 hours has passed, which I'm sure it has,
then about all I am aware you can do is wait and see what happens. If
you can, contact the county agricultural agent if you are in the USA
and explain what has happened (if there are any plants alive at this
point) and see if they have any recommendations.
Personally if these plants are cheap and not very old, I'd wait and
see, hoping that you hosed them off as soon as you learned they'd been
sprayed... and see what they do. Sure, go ahead talk to the county
agent/mastergardeners... and get info from more than one source there,
a trusted long established garden center with a trained person not
some seasonal employee,..and compare notes.
If the plants go yellow all over, and they're cheap, dig them out and
toss them. If they're older plants, might want to talk to the experts
and wait. I have had poppies come back from being hit a bit with
roundup, woody plants may lose this year's foliage and vigor, yet come
back next year.. or grow new leaves this year. As long as an
expensive plant still showed signs of life, I'd give it the benefit of
doubt and time and see if it manages to pull through. Particularly if
any of your experts can give you steps to try!
Good luck. And perhaps take the occasion to explain to your daughter
she should always ask before using, and always always.. read the
labels no matter what she uses inside or out .. before using the
product for the first time. We all should do that, be fewer oopses in
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