If you are talking about starlings and house finches, you are nuts.
Those alien invader pests from Europe have bullied out most of the native
bird species and have done far more damage than cats ever could.
in order to protect the birds feeding in the garden.
J. Kolenovsky, A+, Network +, MCP
τΏτ - http://www.celestialhabitats.com - business
τΏτ - http://www.hal-pc.org/~garden/personal.html - personal
And don't forget the sparrows that hurt our bluebird population. If my cat
ever made it outdoors to kill a few of these species, I'd consider it poetic
justice, being that domestic cats are sort of "man-made," in a sense.
(I vehemently support the "spay" comment, though.)
Cats are the only animal who chose domestication. It started in Egypt. The
cats would recognize around the huge silo of corn or grain, and that in these
silo's were plenty of mice and rats. Cats came into the situation and adopted
people. No other animal has ever intentionally domesticated like the now named,
common house cat.
Strictly speaking, cats aren't "domesticated", meaning substantially
changed from their wild counterparts and bred for the benefit of man.
While hundreds (thousands?) of dog breeds are quite different from
wolves in physiology and habit, cats are more "tamed" than
"domesticated." Simply going where the food is doesn't imply
The kittenishness or infantilism of adult cats makes them very different
from any wild cat. The desert sand cat & the Afghan mountain cat look
exactly like domestic cats, but even if hand-raised are largely
unmanageable (the domestic cat is likely descended from these two). A
southeast asian fisher cat, or south american jagurundi, though small
enough to live loose in the house like a domestic cat, cannot be so kept,
for they will never cease to be nervous in captivity & if loose in the
house like a domestic cat, hooboy, they'd hide constantly & only sneak out
from behind the kitchen stove at night to destroy all your stuff. A bobcat
can easily crossbreed with a domestic cat & the resulting half-bobcat can
be a perfectly reasonable housecat, but the bobcat itself cannot. So
really, a few thousand years of domestication has changed them
That they can become feral in a trice is not unique among domestic breeds
& no indication they are unchanged. Horses & burrows also revert to the
wild with great ease. Domestic dogs can form very dangerous feral packs. A
good argument could be made for horses not being substantially different
from the wild animals first domesticated above the Black Sea; & the fully
domesticated Indian elephant is also unchanged from the wild forest
elephants they once were, & could still live on their own except the
forests they require no longer exist. And the camel, domesticated long
before horses or cattle, is no different than a wild camel. Pigs go feral
with spectacular ease even though domestic strains bare little physical
resemblance to their wild cousins. But cats & dogs can live IN the house
because of a infantalism such as makes them permanant human "child
substitutes"; to impose that level of infantalism on any of the wild cats
would fail utterly & result in an awful house pet, whereas infantalism
imposed on wild canines, though possible, never makes them save toward
anyone outside their "pack" even if their pack is a family of humans.
Domesticated cats & dogs & cattle are very changed compared to their wild
counterparts, more than for horses, asses, ducks, chickens, rabbits,
gerbils, ferrets, elephants, or pigs.
The measurement for domesticated pets would be degree of infantalism that
does not exist in wild counterparts. Coyotes outgrow puppyish dependence
and playfulness in ways that labrador retrievers do not. So too
kittenishness of mature domestic cats cannot be achieved with a fisher cat
or oscelot or desert sand cat, all of which make splendid pets until they
are no longer kittens, then are holy terrors inappropriate for mingling
with people. Yet even a second generation feral cat can be domesticated
with just a little bit of patience, because that capacity for permanent
infantilism has been selectively bred into them for thousands of years.
-paghat the ratgirl
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
On Thu, 31 Jul 2003 08:58:46 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@netscapeSPAM-ME-NOT.net
My information was not that all wild cats can be tamed, but that
"domestic/house/barn/pet/companion animal" cats have not undergone any
substantial genetic change to re-tool them for human use and benefit.
While it is true that certain physical characteristics have been
encouraged (Siamese coloring, short/no/curly hair, no tails, and those
awful deformed short-legged creatures) the "good mouser" mother
doesn't necessarily produce "good mouser" kittens. Nor have cats been
trained or bred to, um, dust under the bed, chase mice and not birds,
or be particularly good to eat. Infantilism in adults is scarcely
evidence of domestication.
It is we humans who have been "domesticated" to the service of the
I would argue that urban sprawl has done far more damage to native species of
all kinds than every cat on the planet. If you restore your gardens back to
their native habit, the native species definitely show up and horn out the
I never allowed my cats out, alone. Since neighbors around here do, from time
to time allow their cats out, I have put up a cheap way to keep them out. On
the top of the fence I nailed some of that cheap border wire fencing found at
cheapo stores. The tines you stick in the ground I face upward, and bend those
to face outside the fence. No cat can get up and around that. At the bottom I
lay my rose trimmings where we hardly use the service gates, and where the main
gate is, I keep it tightly fitted using stepping stones. Barely a mouse can get
Because she doesn't want animals getting into her yard? Same as anyone
else wanting to keep animals out should do.
Just make owning ANY animal within city limits illegal and pay $5.00 a
head for any wild animal pelts brought into the pound. A few years of
that and you'd all be happy, eh?
I am never happy when pe(l)ts are brought to the pound. I adore animals.
That's why I use a barrier method, unlike my neighbor who was arrested a few
years back for putting out a substance cats will drink and die. Same dick who
traps neighbors cats and lets them loose far from home.
It was not trouble. It took a grand total of one hour of my entire life. I'd
prefer to spend an hour being part of the solution than a minute as part of the
problem. People will never change. Cats are not aware they are doing anything
wrong. So, to end my own angst, I did what I did and so far I've not had a
problem with cats or anything else. My wish is for it to stay like that, but
should it not stay like that, I will figure out another solution.
I don't "have" to do anything. I do it because it's now done. I have no other
wisdom on it.
Watch out Tomski, the word is that Hermine the tattooed lady has the hots
Maybe you are the one who has been getting too much asshole rational and
that is why you are such a hemorrhoid, you clueless Bugsy Bugger!!!!!
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