What is the best way to supplement with potassium?

[T]

NO FOOLING !!!!

Garlic is proof God loves mankind. Not beer.

[songbird]

yeah, i could get it and look at it if i downloaded it, but it wasn't showing on my screen any longer like i expected when i clicked on the link. perhaps a security setting in my browser that i'm too busy to look into at the moment. :)

you are 10 miles away from the NW of Oregon?

how large were they? that's the most important point, but i see you answered that below. :)

cloves.

ok.

i also can extract the same indicator from the dry Purple Dove beans i grow, but you have to do it quickly because if you let the water go too long it will get cloudy.

mass is the point, long and skinny isn't the same thing as long and plump.

remember this with bulbs, the energy used to start the next season's growth is contained in that clove you planted. the most energy used will give you a bigger plant which can then capture more sunlight through the leaves. no matter what other conditions you have if you start with a smaller clove then the results will be smaller holding all other variables the same within one important limitation which is the nature of the variety of garlic that you're growing. some varieties will only get so big once you've reached their limit.

that's what the description says in the link you provided to the burpee website for this garlic.

from what i can tell in the picture it looks like the bulbs were properly formed. you can improve the quality of the tunic (covering of the bulb) by lifting the garlic when about half of the stalks have turned yellow or died back. then let it cure in a dark dry location with good air flow. turn the bulbs every day or so if they're sitting on a hard surface so they dry completely on the outside.

also if the soil is sandy and didn't have much clay and organic material to hold moisture you would also have to adjust your watering for those differences. the best way to gauge the water content of the soil if you're uncertain is to just use a trowel or your hands to dig down a little to see how dry it is getting. during active growing season you don't ever want it to get completely dry at the root growing level of the bulbs.

that's a whole different issue. if you want to talk about that put it in another thread...

i'm about to get going for the day so i won't likely see it until later. i have a large garden to finish prepping and then get planted today.

songbird

[songbird]

for sure! their is quite a bit of difference in flavors between varieties. :) i've been growing the same variety for almost 20yrs now. i no longer grow any other kinds.

no, it sounds ok, if your garden soil is generally good and you get a decent tomato crop or onion crop then your garlic is probably also getting enough nutrients. i was just pointing out that adding fertilizers in the off-season when a plant is mostly dormant is pointless and a waste of a valuable resource (and also possibly polluting).

i'm in mid-Michigan we probably have very similar climates. my garlic is just now putting on scapes. i don't remove them because they're often as big as the cloves and if people want seed garlic it is a good extra source if i run out of cloves. if nobody does want them they end up as extra worm food - worms love garlic and onion bits.

songbird

[T]

They were really fat too.

[songbird]

so they did gain, i'm guessing you just needed some more water on them at a regular basis. you don't want those roots to ever go dry until they're almost ready to harvest. onions are similar, they don't like any dry spells at all until they're almost done.

songbird

[T]

Maybe I should water them every week during the winter, except when it rains or snows?

[songbird]

T wrote: ...

generally keep an eye on things once a week and water them when needed.

too much water might be bad too if you end up having standing water or puddles. you don't want that either.

songbird

[T]

Burn California is back. Every summer California's atrocious forestry practices results in our skies darkening with smoke and ash.

Now I mention this because the last two days of smoke made me remember that my garden LOVES California's ash.

So, potassium deficient soil?

Your thoughts?

-T

[songbird]

i just amend with worm castings and worms when i'm planting the most heavy feeding crops that i grow. it is a limited use and not broadcast so nothing is wasted. for a few years after amending that area can be rotation planted with other crops which are not as heavy feeders so i can get two or three plantings/crops without having to amend again. subsequent low till digging finds that the amendments do not degenerate much through time so that those areas remain in much better garden soil quality for further exploitation by plants in those spots or nearby.

this leaves little pockets of organic materials that the worms and fungi can use also leading to even more benefit to the garden plants.

avoiding extra nutrient leeching away is the primary concern with all fertilizer uses. anything you can do which keeps nutrients and organic material from degrading is important. this is also why adding some clay to deficient garden soils that do not have enough is a good recommendation as that also helps with nutrient and water retention.

each year i use about 100-200lbs of home generated worms and worm castings for the gardens. this is generated from food scraps and any other organic materials i can scrounge up to put in the buckets. a lot of it is mostly or partially decayed wood chips. the worms then add their contributions as they help turn the food scraps into fertilizer. one of the components of food scraps is banana peels which have potassium. other foods scraps will also have some potassium. nothing being wasted that is paid for is important and using those fertilizer resources as pointedly as possible also is the best use of those. instead of spreading a more general chemical fertilizer and having a lot of it running off or wasted the worm castings/worms are buried only where the plants are put in. no runoff is leeching any of that away.

the other important part of this is knowing how your gardens are in your water flows and ground water. making sure that surface flows are either captured and soaked in or diverted around gardens so that nutrients and organic materials are not being washed (or blown) away.

songbird

[T]

Just out of curiousity, Home Depot sell 40 lb bags of Potassium Chloride over by the water softener rock salt for 9 U$D.

Would this work? Or kill everything like Sodium Chloride?

[fos]

i harvested my garlic a couple days ago. last year i was disappointed, this year i'm satisfied but there's room for improvement. the average size bulbs this year are the size of the largest i had last year. the largest this year are huge, 2.5 to 3 inches diameter. about 15% of the harvest is that size.

i did lose a lot of cloves. i planted 135 cloves and got 87 bulbs. i used shredded straw as a mulch and failed to keep it fluffed up. i did pull quite a bit off in the spring but it was too late, i found a lot a lot of plants that sprouted and didn't make it to the surface. the ones that survived were stunted and grew real small bulbs. i'm going to use a different mulch, probably compost mixed with shredded leaves. what's not clear to me is the depth of planting. should 2-3 inches of mulch be included in the depth of planting? i planted 6" deep and added 2-3 inches of shredded straw. if i use 2-3 inches of compost with shredded leaves, should i plant only 3-4 inches deep in the actual soil?

watering. i didn't pay close enough attention to keeping the soil moist. in the fall i planted the cloves, covered with mulch, and left them alone. this fall, over winter, and next spring, i'll be diligent about maintaining moist soil.

last is fertilization. judging by the color of the plants which were lighter green this year than last and despite much better results this year, i'm confident i was too light with nitrogen. a soil test will determine that next week. will be using less purchased amendments and more compost, too.

thanks for the insight. excelsior.

[songbird]

[e-mail] wrote: ...

where abouts are you located?

a step up in size is a good sign. i'm not sure what your starting point was though. did you use fresh seed garlic from a new source or is this from replanting what you've always been growing?

since i don't know your growing conditions i can't really say too much other than if it is being indicated by results that mulch isn't helping then reduce it. also not knowing your soil conditions for organic matter or the soil structure itself i'm not sure if you have too much organic matter or what is going on.

it's really up to rainfall or snow cover (depending upon where you are at) as to how much moisture you've got so you do have to at least keep an eye on things. it is rare here that we don't get enough soil moisture but we've had some dry spells the past few years that mean i've had to do a lot more watering than what i would consider normal. gladly the past few days have finally given us a bit of rain.

if you've been regularly adding organic matter or if this was a one time thing and the soil community has caught up with the N and C digesting makes a difference in how things can work out.

generally i aim for replacing what i'm removing and then amend as best i can. i'm seeing an improvement in gardens as i can get the worm populations restored but without being able to grow cover crops and use mulches it is much slower than it would be doing otherwise. still with the mostly clay soils we have when i can get things added the clay does help hold the nutrients.

rains and wind can also bring some extra nutrients along.

songbird

[songbird]

Bob F wrote: ...

what is your soil structure like? sandy? loam? clay content? that should have also been a part of a soil test.

will you be changing your garden beds to reduce the organic matter level or stop adding compost for a few seasons and then retest?

around here i would be moving garden soil around because i have so many gardens that can use an organic matter boost and i have so little of it to spare. at the end of each garden season i bury almost all garden debris and that does help but it is never enough. i call it low-till gardening because i'm rarely digging more than 5%-10% of a garden for the entire season.

that's nice, i've never done anything other than eyeball things here and i am curious about what the pH is in a few gardens, but i never get around to testing it because for the most part the gardens are doing ok with what i'm amending.

our well water does contain some calcium and iron and i've had to water a lot this year so i know that is going to change the pH a little, but the rains are slightly acidic so when we get more rains i hope it balances out.

the actual fertilizer amendment i use for spot feeding does have eggshells in there along with whatever else the food scraps bring for trace nutrients, i'm not too worried about them. i use the results of my heaviest feeding plants (the tomatoes) to guage how good it is and they are 4ft tall already and have nice green leaves.

time to get back out there and get a few things done before it gets too hot again.

songbird

[fos]

western new york. zone 6.

two years in a row purchased romanian red seed garlic from Burpee. unless someone says holy crap don't do that, i'm doing it again this year. i want to eat my large garlic, not stick it back in the ground.

thank you. thank you very much for asking these questions. you're making me think.

i have no idea how much organic material is in the soil and i now see it's extremely relevant. there are some soil guides provided with the LaMotte testing kit i purchased sitting on my nightstand, obviously unfortunatly unread.

today i pulled soil samples to dry for nutrient testing. this week some of it is headed to cornell university for further analysis. again, thanks.

here in WNY fall is usually wet and there's plenty of snow cover. but how much moisture is there is when the weather is cool never crossed my mind. i see is something i must pay attention to.

[songbird]

...

well, as it goes each year if you are planting garlic from another grower you are defeating the benefits of acclimation.

also any time you bring in any plant in any form from another location you are risking introducing diseases and pests.

there is a good chance that some of your largest cloves will be larger than most or all of your seed garlic you are planting. that is a major factor in having a larger bulb the next season. try a few of your largest cloves this fall and see how they do.

...

that's the intent. :)

you're welcome.

yes, winter soil if there hasn't been enough snow can dry out too much. if you get a temporary thaw and a dry enough spell to affect the roots then that can make a difference in size. mulching through the winter can help even out soil moisture and protect from drying out completely, but as far as growing for the next spring you want to pull it off if it is down heavy as then the soil will warm up faster and the garlic will be able to grow easier not having to push up through all the mulch. i've not mulched the garlic i grow here. it's a hard-neck garlic that would grow even if i left it sitting out on the surface of the garden soil. i have about the same climate as you (or perhaps even a bit colder).

y.w. :) keep on learning. :)

based upon the bulb i pulled last week i may have another week or even two yet before harvesting the garlic here. this is later than normal. i'll pull another bulb this coming weekend and see how it looks. don't want to wait too long but also don't want to pull it too early.

songbird

[fos]

braining is always good. :)

am working on it. a lot of this is common sense once you know what to look for. you simply don't know what you don't know. lol.

based on your advice i'm going to use the garlic i grew for seed garlic in the fall. even after using the largest bulbs there will still be plenty left to go through life for the next year smelling like garlic. :D the point you made about acclimation and the possibility of bringing in disease is right on target. no internet needed to make that decision, just some braining required. plus, the money saved from not purchasing more seed garlic will buy several very thorough soil tests. will take approx a month to get the tests and recommendations back, will be sending it out early next week. will post results here.

excelsior.

[fos]

bookmarked. thanks.

[fos]

the Cornell Extension referred me to a local agronomy service. they're supplying the shipping containers and sampling instructions which will followed precisely. the samples i pulled the other day are already back in the garden. mistakes were made taking them. lol

[songbird]

all good to hear, i really hope this helps and you are happy with the results. :)

songbird

[fos]

i'm enjoying the learning experience. it's rewarding and relaxing. well relaxing most of the time. i'm learning about flowers too. i had a beautiful 4 foot square patch of poppies (opium variety) growing from seed and as soon as they started blooming they got slaughtered and eaten by a woodchuck. that's the opposite of relaxing. the vegetable garden is fenced to keep the deer, woodchucks, and rabbits out. the woodchuck did find a weak spot where i clipped the chicken wire on the bottom with a weed whacker though, caught the bastard red handed mowing down my carrots lol. at least i think they're carrots. i pulled one up yesterday that bolted and it was more like a crooked pencil than a carrot.

i'm planning on having these soil tests done asap on the garlic bed.

"A soil health assessment is a comprehensive analysis of the soil that measures attributes associated with physical, chemical, and biological processes. For a proper assessment of your soil’s health, add (860) Solvita CO2 Burst, SLAN, and VAST to any analysis as a supplemental service."

"(833E) PrePlant $13: pH, buffer pH (lime requirement), organic matter, Modified Morgan phosphorus, potassium, calcium, magnesium, aluminum, iron, zinc, and manganese."

question is: overkill or not?