I posted a reply but its not showing up, whats up with that?
Building specifications can act as a legal means of assigning blame or
fault which can come in handy when push comes to shove.
A majority of the instances of the faulty drywall were inexpensive
builder grade homes targeted at first time home buyers.
The builders were cutting all legal and non-legal corners they could
to garner a piece of that bubble action and now with the economic
downturn they have left town so to speak.
In these homes the builder controlled just about everything and it was
a very competitive market at the time.
Ultimately the responsibility for the drywall falls on the people that
signed the original contract and that can vary, but most likely it is
not the home buyer that bears the responsibility yet still must endure
In my opinion the entity that is supplying the majority of the funding
for a home building process should provide a means of making sure they
product they are financing is done according to the specifications
they themselves provide.
One of the things that facilitated this fiasco is something I have
mentioned before in the past and that is the innate ignorance and
apathy of the average home buyer in the US.
This combination of personal flaws is startling and at the same time
How can sane people enter into long term, hugely expensive contracts
on things they have very little knowledge of and do so without any
legal backing as well?
If this thing is as big as I've heard it will most likely receive a
gov't backed bailout and the financial support will be borne by the
taxpayers and others and those responsible for the mistakes will
Oh boy! I will refer to your last paragraph. Well, I am one of your so
called ignorant average home buyers in the US. You are probably very
young, naive and not from the USA. I have bought a dozen homes and I have
been able to succcessfully live and sell them at a profit. We usually can
trust our home inspectors and home builders with the process of buying a
home. But this is different. You need to educate yourself and visit a
few of these homes. All of the homes were not the builder grade first
home buyer homes you were referring to. There are homes in my area that
are in million dollar subdivisions that have this drywall. Pleeeaasse,
this is wrecking peoples lives.
On Oct 21, 8:39 pm, destaub_at_deltaresearchgroup_dot email@example.com
No, you will not refer to my last paragraph.
You will refer to my entire post or you will be shown to be a fool.
But then, your ignorance betrays you.
I have designed thousands of building projects all over the world for
more than 30 years for some of the largest builders and private
individuals that you have heard of.
Even after being involved with a dozen homes you publicly admit your
I have seen these homes, many of them, and not one of them was built
by a concerned builder attentive to details as circumstances require,
otherwise this chinese drywall fiasco would not have occurred.
Learn the phrase, "caveat emptor", it is alive and well here in the
good ol' USSA and if you choose to be ignorant of that fact as well
then you have a bumpy road before you.
If you cannot do the heavy lifting required to build a new home then
maybe you should invest your time and effort elsewhere.
By heavy lifting I mean making the decisions and accepting the
responsibility of those choices.
It has become way to fashionable of late for people to run their
mouths then shift blame, as your post has so eloquently illustrated.
Not quite. You're not listening to the guy, and this has nothing to
do with whatever experience you have on unrelated stuff. You made
several points which were loose on logic, and Daysta took issue with
just a couple. I take issue with basically all of your points, but I
have the heating system* apart and winter's a-comin', so I'll have to
rip you a new one later. =:O
* Working on steam systems is fun!
Was wondering where you'd been.
Yes, I want to hear your take on all of this.
FWIW, I'm not unsympathetic to the plight but I see a lot of
emotionalism being dumped into this thing and I think logic is the
People are responsible for this and I hope the right people are held
Be careful, steam blisters can wreck you for a long time, double, no,
triple check everything.
The very first home I bought was an older home that needed fixing up
and I was young and dumb and thought I could do it all.
It was wired for aluminum but an addition was wired with copper and
the house had sat vacant for a year, which is not good to do in high
On moving in day I threw the main breaker and started moving furniture
in. About 30 minutes into it my house caught fire, from a *chemical
reaction* at the union of copper/aluminum wires to the water heater. I
learned several things that day.
Things have been complicated all along Ken thats why legal mechanisms
are in place for intelligent people to reach beyond their own
An intelligent person recognizes his limitations and hires competent
people with experience in the respective field(s) to deal with the
things he is unable to.
No one can be an expert at everything, cept Rico of course. ;-)
Stop right there.
If you trust building codes you deserve what you get because those
people cannot be held accountable.
It doesn't *shift* anywhere, it stays right where it was from the
I think its the person(s) that signed the contract, be that builder,
developer, self, etc.
What you are seeing here is a lot of people trying to avoid
responsibility, surprise-surprise, most likely because the repair will
be very expensive, far beyond just the cost of replacing drywall,
especially with reference that a majority of the house inflicted with
malady being massive quanities of cheap builder homes where the cost
to value ratio is so low. In Cape Coral, Florida, right now, there are
over 1000 of these cheezy homes on the records with this drywall flaw
and its estimated the cost per home will be over $10k but with the
property values de-valued to the range of $40-80k it doesn't make
sense to replace the drywall. The land these homes are sitting on is
worth more than the houses. These houses sold for more than $100k in
the past 5-6 years. Now, they can't give them away so they sit vacant,
abandoned. (In 2005 the largest builder in Cape Coral, "1st Homes",
built more than 5300 homes there and all of them were what I
previously described. The owner of 1st Homes, sold the business to the
3rd largest builder in the country for bazillions of $$$ and then
promptly moved to his palatial estate on the west coast of central
Mexico, Hovnanian <sp> supposedly based in New Jersey whom recently
declared bankruptcy and left everyone dangling.)
Question for the day:
Whom is responsible for *allowing* faulty drywall into the country in
the first place?
On Oct 21, 7:39 pm, destaub_at_deltaresearchgroup_dot firstname.lastname@example.org
You just about lost me with 'sell them at a profit' and 'a dozen
homes'. Fuck that.
Keyword: 'Usually'. And i'm not even sure it's usually. Fuck that.
Million dollar homes? That still seems like "builder-grade" and maybe
more so. Fuck that.
What a spiritually lost society we "live" in.
I hope the sulfur or whatever corrodes everything and the kitchen sink.
This on the heels of my natural building educational venture. (Hey, I
came across mention of that 'Shelter' book.)
I'll be an "archy" yet, if not "legally". ;) Maybe we should ALL be.
Like in the old world. (Oh! My new education is showing. ;)
Looks like a good book... I'm curious to know what my e-library
download offers. It might have stuff like that. I'm at 70% downloaded
with my fingers crossed. I've been very lucky so far with all my bit
There seem to be some hands-on natural-building apprenticeships
advertised online that I'm thinking about. Straw bales can be load-
bearing and cob looks surprisingly viable. They've done some kind of
cob snack/popcorn stand in Stanley park in Vancouver, incidentally,
and cob has successfully withstood rigorous earthquake tests at UBC.
The word 'cob' still makes me think of those little mini corn-cobs
(the kind that get marinated) throughout a mud-mix decorating a
house's walls. You can also add manure as a binder.
"Man, your walls look like shit... Hey, WTF are those little cobs
doing in there?"
Personally, I like the idea of mix-and-match, using timber-frame with
some aesthetic elements of cob, straw-bale, cordwood, stone and glass,
depending on region and local availability.
Some of the homes I'm seeing online are just gorgeous and seem to put
developer stuff beneath shame.
Did you know that straw bales are also very good at insulating? Not
really surprised, but still... and the thickness of the walls lend the
inside of the homes to sumptuousness, conducive to co-mingling 'n' fun
I give the one-finger salute to Chinese drywall.
So I hear. I wonder how effective "mingling" with a female code
inspector might be in this regard.
Joke aside, post-and-beam-timberframe plus strawbale for insulation
may prove of little worry code-wise and what little siding there might
be among the glazing could be done in rough-cut wood (the sweet-
looking wavy bark-left-on type). Also, progress is being made on the
codefront in many natural building regards, thanks to "pioneers", and
from what I can glean, Vancouver seems more up on code-flexing where
I've read a little about portable saw mills, by the way, where one can
mill their own wood... presumably outside of a tight subdivision.
Maybe it's supposed to fall off. I think the wavy stuff seen may have
been without the bark. Hard to tell with some pics.
Perhaps you can use the bark, itself, for siding though. Good luck
trying to keep it on in any case.
Good job. Like the link about the house I previously sent, I got to
thinking that nature pretty much does all the work for us.
The tables and houses that appear closest to nature, seem to
practically design and build themselves.
We caught wind of it even up here in Ottawa. So *you're* the guy.
Fantasic... Wait 'till our local mayor finds out. I think he'll want
to pay you and your table a personal visit just to see what all the
fuss is about.
Ok, everything's off. Cancel the reception.
Just do like that priest in Pierre's recent joke, but with some
I suspected as much, but was curious if 'power freex' was a trade name
or something or if you meant something additional by it.
I was unaware what a pen blank was until today. It's the body or part
of a pen that you screw or snap into the rest of it? You sealed the
skin inside the acrylic too?
While I appreciate the gesture, do you think you might be able to do a
pair of custom knitting needles? :) As you might recall, I knit, but
am using pens less and less.
Some of the custom knitting needles out there-- in various materials--
are very nice and, for example, I've even seen ones that are lathed(?)
(or however they make them) from different colored plywood glued
together for a funky stepped rainbow wooden look. Have you ever or
can you lathe bamboo? I have a pair of bamboo ones already-- they're
the one's I'm using right now for my first sweater ever-- but still...
and I'm also just curious.
If you're motivated, go to Google Images and enter keywords, 'custom
knitting needles' or something. You can put different shapes on their
ends, either as part of the material of the needle, or as a completely
I'll check it out.
I've been very taken with this lathe stuff for most of this year.
Just yesterday I saw mention on the web something about knitting
needles but didn't pursue it.
But now I will.
Yes, you can turn bamboo on a lathe or any other material, as long as
you understand the limitations.
The rainbow wood you mentioned is called Dymondwood but also goes
under other names.
There is a universe of stuff out there now and more being developed
all the time.
Its possible to make your own pen blanks with kits they make.
You use a pen tube, about 7mm dia x 2" long, wrap a meterial around
it, say a piece of an old pair of jeans for example, or maybe a $100
bill (a color copy of course) then place it in a mold and pout in the
acrylic resin. The end result will be a solid clear plastic square
5/8"x5/8"x2" and after it is turned and drilled it can become a pen.
Thats how the cobra skin pen was done for my son.
I have a new little project I am working on that I have never seen
I just glued it up and clamped it yesterday and about 5pm today I'm
gonna yank the clamps and throw it on the lathe.
Send me an email and I'll send you a pik that I took of it yesterday
right after I glued it. Then I'll send you another after I turn it.
It consists of Aspen and Walnut wood.
Aspen = white, Walnut = dark brown, a nice contrast.
I'm hoping for ellipses. ;-)
Here's what the red cobra pen blanks look like:
Here's what the damascus steel pen blanks look like:
From what I understand and can glean, Quonset is simply based on the
name of the place they initially made them, and that how good your own
Quonset is, such as with fires, etc., depends on how it's made.
Are there things about a Quonset, such as its shape, that make it
stand above other designs for you? Personally, I'm unsure I like the
design, but maybe you have a view on it that could make it something
(Actually, a natural-built Quonset might have something to it if done
For example, I keep referring back (on my own time) to the subject
(woodsman's cottage) of the link I posted, in part because it seems to
embody many of the things I like. It's hardly a compromise between;
cheap, local, independent/community-build potential, attractive,
strong, flexible/expandable, efficient, fast/easy-to-build: Very
simple round-log "cruck" frame, straw bale, cob/lime/wattle&daub
plaster (I think), natural wood siding/flooring, good lighting,
recycled elements (if recalled). I would expect creaking with this
house, but why would creaks bother? It's the house speaking. Let it
speak/warn of an intruder.
I'm tempted to scoff at silent-house marketing and "glu-lam i-beams".
Let's see if you can disassemble those glu-lam beams in 200 years and
reuse them in the same way as the natural house, or if the glue
doesn't send something else dubious out into the air. The more I look
into "unnatural architecture", the more it appears a joke. Glad I
didn't "get into architecture".
I've been reading about 'embodied energy', which, if understood, is a
consideration of the energy required for the extraction, processing,
shipment, etc., of a material until it gets to the home and is built
into it. Metals apparently have very high embodied energy. They may
also need it to be recycled. Energy uses resources.
The woodsman's cottage I refer to, you could practically build
yourselves with just about everything you have on your property:
Four attached simple capital letter A's with cantilevered horizontal
What better letter to begin something?
Because it's triangular at top parts to begin with, there's no bracing
needed in some regards, and it's inherently strong.
I imagine that, since it's not quite cookie-cutter, even if done the
same way it would look very different from the next, due to each
builder, the differences in the materials and sites and so on. This is
how neighborhoods would do well to look and feel like, as opposed to
the developer nightmares we call suburbia. I'll bet those kinds of
things also create feelings of disconnect and sow the seeds for crime.
"Around the strangers moved, the shouts I felt within
New panoramas seen (I loved it as it was).
Forests of pylons built, the scaffolding is raised
And how the men pursue their work
They act convinced of freedom.
Crossed over by the bridge
The brook was running ill
We recognised the place - places we knew as children
We wept upon the sight, and progress tore our hearts
Fences divide the land, homes boxed like rabbit hutches..."
-- Goodbye to the village,
by Killing Joke
With a frame like that? If I did it myself, sleep very soundly. The
pitch might be too steep for 3' of snow to cling to, and the creaking
might already be well-known and expected, such as during windstorms.
My pipes would unlikely freeze, either. I'm Canadian afterall. We
Canadians know-- or should know-- about water pipes and freezing.
That house also has solar panels, one or two windmills, a stove and
maybe a fireplace.
That cottage could handle any winter Canada could throw at it. It's
already straw-bale insulation for one and/or could easily be adapted
for a harsher CA winter-- like your Quonset.
Hardly, but so I've heard, but so what. I mean, you're building
motorized wooden all-terrain vehicles.
I'm as yet unconvinced in any case, especially if I include the
sources of energy and infrastructure, and what labour etc., is
required for those-- which, by the way, doesn't include the labour/
energy/resources that may be saved over generations with such a house,
or the meaningfulness of such labours.
Over the short or the long-term, and looking at ALL costs related to
the backhoe/200 guys?
Also I would want to inquire as to why 200 guys or the backhoe are
digging a ditch and what the costs of the ditch, itself, are.
There's "smart technology" and then there's "stupid technology" and
then there're stupid ways to use them and resources.
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