Which Hand Plane Next?

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(G) looks like you got some pretty good advice a block plane is good choice and a joiner right now may not be needed. but I do make moving fillister planes and in a week or two a side rabbet plane 9G)
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Knight-Toolworks & Custom Planes
Custom made wooden planes at reasonable prices
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Can we take this back a step and state what order I should buy quality planes. I have no desire for anymore machinery. I currently have a bench type plane and a block plane both swiss made Rali brand. Do consider them high quality? They work ok, but need new blades (replaceable). I would like to edge glue better - jointer? Or will a shorter plane work as well? I just ordered a japanese bench plane from LV to give it a try. What is next? I really love the wooden block plane for 69.00 at LV(looks like a primus).
Should I replace what I have, or keep buying new. I do most of my work on a small japanese bench at floor level and only seem to use japanese saws and chisels. I am not bias it just seems to work better for me than standing.
If this post is out of line, I appologize - sorta new, but been lurking for a few months.
nebraska rod
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Rodney wrote:

IMHO, you will want to replace the Rali planes if you plan to do any extensive planing. If you are doing edge-joining of anything longer than a couple of feet, you'll want a jointer plane like an old Stanley #7. (I do most of my edge-jointing with an old Stanley #6 (foreplane), but that's because it was the first longer plane I owned, and I just got used to working with it.)
If you plan to surface wood by hand, the longer plane will also come in handy for flattening boards. Then you'll want a smoother for getting the surface ready for finishing. (I really like the LV low-angle smoother, but some folks report having problems with low-angle planes on tricky grain.)
Also, if you do a lot of handjoinery, there are several planes that will come in handy, such as a rabbet plane (Stanley #78), shoulder plane (check out the new LV offerings here), plough plane (for cutting grooves; my personal favorite is the Record 044), etc.
Finally, you mentioned the wooden block plane. Given that it costs almost $70, I would recommend that you spend a bit more and buy the LV low-angle block. It has an adjustable mouth, tremendous mass, thick iron, very precise adjustment mechanism (based on the Norris style adjuster), side set-screws for ease of adjustment after removing the iron for sharpening, and a body that's well-designed from an ergonomic standpoint. It's become my favorite block plane, and I have ... er ... "a few" to choose from, among them, a crispy old Stanley #60-1/2 and #65.
Obviously, YMMV, as a lot of it comes down to personal preferences. In fact, given your fondness for Japanese methods, there's a whole world of Japanese planes that might be worth exploring.
But I'll leave that to folks who know more about it than I do.
Chuck Vance
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I read at Steve Knight's site that a plane for figured and highly figured woods has a blade set at 50 - 55, far different than a low angle, higher angle the standard 45. I think I have seen japanese planes with blades set at 60 somewhere online. And with that, the laminated blade is the way to go for strength and cutting out chatter, me -inexperienced so far.
Alex
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Well, what do you expect? Steve doesn't make low-angle planes. ;-)
Seriously, I know that is the common wisdom, but I have planed everything from curly koa, to cocobolo, purpleheart, quilted maple and mesquite with my low-angle smoothers. The real keys, IMHO, are (besides having an extremely sharp blade) taking a very fine cut, having solid bedding and a thick iron and the ability to close up the mouth to eliminate tearout. My low-angle smoothers shine in all those areas.
They also (being bevel-up planes) allow you to change the effective cutting angle by simply changing the bevel angle. If your blade is bedded at 12 degrees, sharpen your blade at 35 and you have a 47 degree effective cutting angle. Sharpen it at 40 degrees, and you now have a 52 degree angle.
Don't get me wrong, I have a C&W wooden smoother with a 55 degree bedding angle, and I have one of Steve's coffin smoothers that's at 55, and they are excellent for tackling figured woods. In fact, my C&W is my "last resort" plane. However, I have noticed that I rarely have to go for it as I keep a low-angle plane set up just for handling tricky woods. (Yes, I have more than one low-angle smoother.) And I've found that in most cases, if the low-angle plane won't cut it (so to speak), then it's going to need to be scraped.
Anyhow, my overall point is that even more important than bevel-angle is the combination of several factors, plus your experience/comfort-level with the plane.
Chuck Vance
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snipped-for-privacy@neb.rr.com (Rodney) wrote in message
planes. I have no desire for anymore machinery. I currently have a

Dunno about the bench one, but the Rali is probably a waste of time. Have had one of them for years and I've wasted more time trying to make it work than actually doing anything with it. It's OK for pine, I suppose...

Given that you work the Japanese way, then more of their planes would be the best idea. Western style planes require a standing position to work properly. With the possible exception of block planes and the HNT Gordon ones which work best the Japanese way, IMHO.
I particularly like the LN low angle block or the HNT Gordon block, but there are a lot of people saying good things about the Lee Valey. Give it a go?
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HNT G makes Chinese and Vietnamese planes, not Japanese. Alex
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That's not quite what he said:
"With the possible exception of block planes and the HNT Gordon ones which work best the Japanese way, IMHO."
I agree with Noons, some HNTs pull better than push.
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Greg




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Thank you both for your replies. I have the same feelings about the rali. It seems to need adustment after every stroke.
So LV low angle block what to use for squaring up a board? LV low angle jack? what to use for edge gluing.
I am not apposed to Knight's wooden planes, or buying used, but I can only afford a couple of any style (baby steps). I have built a ton of stuff without planing a thing, but want to move my projects up a notch.
First order of business is getting a 32" X 13" X 4" of fir good and square as is is my primary work surface.
Next being able to edge glue boards without gaps or machines. I would idealy like to hand rip the boards and plane down to width and thickness by hand.
Last, a good general small plane to clean up and do end grain.
I have been a Popular guy for several years and just moved on to red and white oak for a few small projects - this is where I noticed the real need to plane the boards. I stopped sanding about 3 months ago when I dicovered scrappers - if I never hear that evil random orbital again it will be too soon. The hand tools make the experience zen like - much like doing kata in martial arts.
My wife looked at my newly designed asian workbench and just left the room. She doesn't get the meditative felling I get creating these small projects.
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snipped-for-privacy@neb.rr.com (Rodney) wrote in message

I have used a low-angle jack for surfacing and even jointing for very short boards, but IMHO you'd be better off with a longer plane, a foreplane at least. Lee Valley also makes one of those, and while I haven't tried that particular plane, I am a big fan of their whole line of planes. Top quality at a very reasonable price, and they have made some real improvements to the standard Stanley/Bailey designs.

That's the way I do it. And that's where you really need the longer plane.

Lee Valley low-angle block or old Stanley #60-1/2.

Don't worry, it's a yin vs. yang thing. :-)
Chuck Vance
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snipped-for-privacy@neb.rr.com (Rodney) wrote in

I am not familiar with how a Japanese woodworker would approach that task, but in western style woodworking one would typically use a jack plane (#5 size) to remove the major irregularities, followed by a jointer (#7 or #8) to produce a true, straight edge.
If you have the funds, an L-N #7 or #8 would be ideal for preparing a board to edge glue - but those cost the better part of $500. For a more modestly priced alternative, I'd look to an older Stanley.
(as an aside, I have a low angle jack, the L-N version, but I'm not particularly fond of it. When I use it it's used as a big smoother. Other folk, obviously, love their low-angle jacks, so the point I'm making is that it's a plane that suits different people differently...much like wooden planes suit some folk more than others).
John
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: Although there is "never enough money" for a tool collector like me, I : have permission from SWMBO to purchase another hand plane (she gets an : equivalently valued item as part of the deal).
Is is perhaps better to avoid the embarassment of having to seek permission?
Why not negotiate a percentage of monthly income to spend as each other pleases?
But perhaps this is too intrusive?
Jeff G
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Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
Email: username is amgron
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Oh, I exaggerated. We have a good relationship and doing our finances is not a big problem -- neither of us is carelss with the dollars. There's rarely any negotiation or embarrassment. Thanks for your concern!
"Jeff Gorman" <seethesig> wrote in message wrote

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On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 08:11:17 +0100, "Jeff Gorman" <seethesig> calmly ranted:

You've just suggested using logic in dealing with:
A) Women B) Tool collections/collectors.
Would you like to restate that one, Jeff? <wink>
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Never Enough Money wrote:

You've gotten lots of good advice, but I can resist.
Bullnose shoulder plane -- given that you already have a chisel plane, I don't think this is the way I'd go. The only times I ever use the bullnose feature is getting up close to joints for glue removal or other things that could be done easily with a plain old chisel. Since you already have the medium shoulder plane, I see no need for adding this one.
L-N skew block -- I've got that plane, and there are times when it is just the ticket. However, there are also long periods of time when it sits un-used. I'd say it depends on what you anticipated using it for. It's handy for cleaning up cheeks of tenons, but a chisel does that just about as well. It's nice for raising panels, but there are other ways to do that as well. So how did you anticipate using it?
Edge planes -- I don't own any of these, so I can't help here. I do own a Stanley side-rabbet, and I use that about once a year.
A jointer -- I get by just fine with old Stanleys for this. But, if you have your heart set on buying a new plane, I'd recommend the LV. Every time I've compared a plane of theirs side-by-side with a L-N, the LV has come out the winner in price vs. performance. I don't know about Steve's jointers, but just looking at them, I'd say that I wouldn't do too well with them. I like a jointer to have a tote and front knob. Maybe it's just me, but for edge-joining, I don't do well with a wooden plane with only a tote.
The ECE moving fillister -- I haven't used that plane either, but I see no reason why you couldn't get by with an old Stanley #78 (duplex rabbet plane). If you need to cut grooves, a plane like the Record #044 will work just fine.
I realize I haven't been a lot of help. Personally, if I had to choose from the planes you've mentioned, I'd probably go with the skew block plane. But don't expect it to replace a regular low-angle plane, and beware that you will encounter situations where it will tear-out horribly.
Chuck Vance
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