What do you charge then?

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Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 10:03am snipped-for-privacy@leevalley.com (RobinLee) interprets: Hmm ... Karma... Tibetan for "able to sleep well at night"....
I always wondered what that meant, and where it came from. LMAO
JOAT Remember: Nova is Avon, spelled backwards.
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The only other company I've dealt with with a similar customer-service obsession is Dillon Precision Products, makers of _very_ good reloading equipment. You call 'em with a question, the person who answers the phone knows the product line so well that they can talk about thread pitches on components, adjustment, troubleshooting, all that good stuff. Parts, even if you screwed up, are replaced for free. They shipped me an updated part that I never asked for, simply because my reloading press had the old design of it and they had improved the design of that part.
You don't get this kind of customer service from many companies, and when you do, it helps all concerned to share your positive experiences. I look forward to being able to buy something from Robin, based on what I've read here.
Dave Hinz
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I remember, vaguely, from my Accounting 101 and 102 courses, that there is the possibility of a line item for "Good Will" that could be a negotiating point in the sale of a business - then again, I may have been smoking dope that day.
Regards, Tom.
"People funny. Life a funny thing." Sonny Liston
Thomas J.Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet (real email) http://home.comcast.net/~tjwatson1
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Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 6:42am (EST-1) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (ToddFatheree) put out: You assume too much. I have, actually. A full tear-off and re-shingle. It's very hard work (I'm not looking forward to doing it again), but not terribly difficult to understand.
No, I didn't assume anything. What I said was, "sounds like". However, in your words, it also sounds like you've only done it once. No, it's "not" terribly difficult to understand. However, like many other things,"understanding" (knowing the theory) doesn't mean you're automatically good at it. Hell, I "understand" a lot of things, but that doesn't mean I could do them, or at least do them well, or as fast. Sounds like you and Karl Marx would get along fine. Power to the people!
Nope, I don't believe in Communism. The theory is good, but theres always people on top skimming the cream, without contributing anything, so in real-life I don't see it as a viable solution.
In all of my military assignments, within 6 months, I could do "any" duty my people had. Any problems came up, I could tell what they were, and how to correct them. I could watch any of my people for 5 minutes, or less, and tell if they were doing their job right or not. I've never seen any civilian supervisor, or manager, that could even come close to doing that. If you were doing this as a business, I hope your accountant has a good way of accounting for "karma" in the financial statement.
It's an intangible, but it's called customer relations. I know if I had someone not take off $100 on materials, and I found out about it, I would be inclined not to deal with them again. On the other hand, if I got the benefit of the $100, I "would" be inclined toward repeat business, and speaking favorably of them.
JOAT Remember: Nova is Avon, spelled backwards.
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wrote: Then you'd be wrong, particulrly in the case cited where one guy did the whole roof (& straight, w/out snapped lines). The level of skill between a roofer and cabinetmaker perhaps vary, but not to the degree that one (roofing) requires no (as in zero) skills.
The neighbor's house was done by an unskilled roofer. The shingles angle down along the rows such that eventually two rows come to a point. The tabs don't line up and basically, while it keeps the house dry (I htink), it looks like $hit.
Unique designs are a whole nuther level.
Renata

-snip-
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Renata wrote:

From time to time I visit art galleries, often dragged along by my wife. I prefer things I can recognize: "That is a painting of a tree in a meadow beside a bubbling brook. That other one is a painting of the Grand Canyon."
OTOH I've been to galleries that leave me wondering, "How can I break into this racket?" I could crush two beer cans and put them on the seat of an old rickety folding chair that has a moth-eaten sweater hanging on the back and title the exhibit, "Untitled", if some rich fool or the National Endowment for the Arts (NEA) would pay me to do so. ;-)
Shingle tabs that don't line up? Shingle rows that come together? What boldness! What daring! That artist is a genius! Here is a check for $500,000.00 to enable him or her to continue his or her great series, "Man's Inhumanity to Adverbs."
-- Mark
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This Cabinet did a fair price at the auction recently.
http://www.christies.com/promos/dec04/6968/pressRelease.asp
36 million US dollar.
--
mare

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P.S.

"Honey, handcuffs or chokechain. One has to go."
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Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 3:25pm (EST+5) snipped-for-privacy@verizon.no.spam.net (MarkJerde) says: <snip> I prefer things I can recognize: <snip>
Yeah. I still remember my first visit to the Smithsonian gallery. I was able to recognize different artists' styles clear across the room, and actually know who the artists were before I got close enough to read the little plaque. Wonderful.
JOAT Remember: Nova is Avon, spelled backwards.
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Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 9:45am snipped-for-privacy@myrealbox.com (Renata) says: <snip> Unique designs are a whole nuther level.
Yup, some of those are definitely the result of unskilled labor.
JOAT Remember: Nova is Avon, spelled backwards.
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The term "unskilled labor" has a specific connotation in the construction trade. My wife, a 10-year veteran in construction management for a *very* large construction company, assures me that roofers are considered unskilled labor. Does it mean that some aspects of roofing are not difficult? Of course not.

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designer/maker
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Fri, Dec 10, 2004, 8:00pm (EST-1) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (ToddFatheree) says: <snip> My wife, a 10-year veteran in construction management for a *very* large construction company, assures me that roofers are considered unskilled labor. <snip>
Yup, sounds like a management call. Don't have to pay as much that way.
JOAT Remember: Nova is Avon, spelled backwards.
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(Todd Fatheree) says: <snip> My wife, a 10-year veteran in construction management for a *very* large construction company, assures me that roofers are considered unskilled labor. <snip>

Yeah, because management decides what to pay roofers, not the union here in Chicago. Try getting a clue.
todd
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Not everyone lives in Chicago. Plenty of non-union roofers in my area.
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wrote in message

I was talking about my wife, who works in Chicago. JT responded about my wife. My comment was made in that context. There are plenty of non-union roofers in Chicago, but all of the ones my wife works are unionized and management doesn't decide what to pay them all by themselves as JT asserted. They have representation by the union to negotiate their wage.
todd
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Sat, Dec 11, 2004, 10:16am (EST-1) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (ToddFatheree) says: <snip> management doesn't decide what to pay them all by themselves as JT asserted. They have representation by the union to negotiate their wage.
That isn't the way it came across.
JOAT We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails. - unknown
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Sat, Dec 11, 2004, 9:17am (EST-1) snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com (ToddFatheree) says: Yeah, because management decides what to pay roofers, not the union here in Chicago. Try getting a clue.
I've got a clue, that's why I not only don't live anywhere near Chicago, I don't live anywhere near Illinois.
Union roofers, but management only pays what management wants, eh? Be interesting if they go on strike.
By the way, the roofer that did my roof isn't union, he's self employed.
JOAT We cannot direct the wind, but we can adjust the sails. - unknown
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(Todd Fatheree) says:

For the sarcasm-deprived, that was my point.

Your response to my post was about my wife's experience, so unless your roofer has worked for her, it's not very relevant.
todd
btw, the last word is yours, if you want it. I'm tired of fixing your posts so that they're readable. I realize it's probably a WebTV thing, but it's still a PITA.
todd
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I hope at least one of the roofers on the job is "skilled" . Yes, the remainder can be your general grunts.
Amazingly, when I was doing my roof last year I had several "gentlemen" walking by who thought to help a lady in distress (the distress being that I was a "lady" roofing) and offer their expert knowledge in how to lay a roof. What I really needed was the guy who'd be willing to haul the shingles across the frigin' roof and heave 'em into the dumpster. But, that don't pay as well...
Renata
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Depends on how you quoted the price. If you just quoted $900 for the project, then I agree, you feel into a deal and made $200 more profit than originally anticipated.
However, if you priced it with the material cost broken out seperate from the labor, then the price SHOULD drop by the $200, otherwise you are essentiall STEALING from the customer
John
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