Tired of electrical discussions.

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On Mon, 16 May 2005 23:17:05 -0400, the inscrutable Robatoy

Not ONE of you fidiots heard the "zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Plop!" on this one, did you? <sigh>
------------------------------------------ Do the voices in my head bother you? ------------------------------------------ http://diversify.com Full-Service Web Development
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Hello?
Larry?
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Uh, which Larry? :)
--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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snipped-for-privacy@fellspt.charm.net (Lawrence Wasserman) wrote:

LOL...wooops... The other Larry.
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But how is bad electrical advice any different from getting bad (potentially dangerous) advice on how to use a woodworking tool? For example, using an antikickback or workholding device incorrectly could cause as many problems as incorrectly wiring something. I'm thinking about the kinds of things discussed in that thread about millwork being shot out of a table saw through the shop wall, etc. I think anything discussed on any forum should be compared with personal experience and the sound advice of a someone who knows what they are talking about. Just my opinion, hope people give it some thought.
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Because bad electrical advice can get people _killed_.

I disagree entirely.
Woodworking accidents are rarely fatal, and generally are the result of carelessness, inattention, or poor practice - and the consequences normally do not go much beyond injuries to the one responsible for said carelessness et cetera, and a ruined piece of lumber.
Improper wiring, by contrast, results with disturbing frequency in residence fires which do tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of damage, or claim the lives of an entire family.
They're just not in the same category at all, either in the nature, or the scope, of the consequences.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote in

And they lay in hiding endangering future occupants and workers...
Patriarch
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Someone just told me about a situation in which a student was leaning back in a chair/stool in a high school chem lab. The chair slipped, the kid fell, hit her head on the table. Was a quadraplegic until died at the age of ~40. Now someone could have said that she got bad advice about whether to lean a chair back on a slippery floor. Did she regret getting that information or lack of it? No one will ever know. To me, advice is advice. Mistakes can kill or maim no matter what they are. Don't believe me: go into google scholar (searching scholarly articles) and type in "fatal woodworking accidents." Here is a quote from one of the articles: "A study from Sweden showed that woodworkers had the highest incidence rates of accident-related permanent disability among young workers. " Persson I, Larsson TJ. Accident-related permanent disabilities of young workers in Sweden 1984-85. Safety Sci. 1991; 14:187-198 I don't seek to offend or put down other people's views or opinions, but I do believe that it is important to hear all points of view.
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True - but you're completely ignoring the concept of "relative risk". Bad electrical wiring is _far_ more likely to cause serious injury or death, and major property damage, than bad practices in a woodshop - and the consequences affect innocent people as well as (or instead of) the boob who caused the problem.

I'm not sure you've grasped my point yet. How many of those woodworking accidents injured, disabled, or killed anyone besides the woodworker? How many of those accidents caused hundreds of thousands of dollars in property damage? Electrical fires do these things; woodworking accidents do not.

As do I. That does *not* mean, however, that I believe all points of view are equally valid.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
Nobody ever left footprints in the sands of time by sitting on his butt. And who wants to leave buttprints in the sands of time?
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I now completely see your point. You are correct that very few woodworking accidents involve others compared to electrical accidents. However, many electrical accidents on the smaller scale involve only the amateur electrictian. I do agree that, given the relative scale of the problems, we should limit this forum to sound woodworking advice. If in doubt about an electrical problem, contact a licensed electrician. Doug, thanks for the enlightening discussion.
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Yeah..and WHO said there was no rational thought in UseNet, eh?
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

No argument from me, Doug. I know what you mean.
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[severely snipped for brevity]

Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. The point of my original post was to try to warn people that just because somebody offers up an answer, with some sound of authority, that it could be wrong. I think you are right to say that it's not just the topic of electricity which can create a hazard with a wrong answer/advice. ----> EXAMPLE!!!..."When turning a bowl, you can see MUCH better if you take off your safety glasses" <------THAT is an example.
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Sorry bout the length. Thought it made a point.
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