Time to re-evaluate router-table routers?

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After several postings to the thread "Triton Router - she no start" I began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic of routers. I've posted many times to this news group asking about router lifts. However, I must confess, I never bought one. Now progress has delivered routers with built-in above the table adjustments.
So
1. Are router lifts a dying breed? If so we should see prices drop soon. ;-) 2. What's the new "best under the table router?" 3. It used to be conventional wisdom that a fixed base router under the table was best, but Fine Woodworking (FWW) just selected the Triton 3.25 HP plunge router as the best of the "new breed" of above the table adjustment routers. What are the reactions from the rec? 4. I wonder what's in the works from Porter-Cable, Milwaukee, Festool, etc.? 5. For us old guys that bought routers before all the above the table adjustment ideas materialized, would it be better to buy one of the new breed or buy that long lusted for router lift? I hear router lifts still have superior precsion.....
Cheers!
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BTW, is the venerable Pat Warner critique at http://www.patwarner.com/selecting_router.html still valid?
wrote:

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Fri, Dec 29, 2006, 4:24pm (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (NeverEnoughMoney) doth query: BTW, is the venerable Pat Warner critique at http://www.patwarner.com/selecting_router.html still valid?
I don't know, but possibly Pat Warner might.
JOAT It's not hard, if you get your mind right. - Granny Weatherwax
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Never Enough Money wrote:

Personally, I don't see what all the fuss is about. When I had a plunge router mounted in my table, I longed for a router lift. That little bitty adjustment knob needed lots of turns to get the collet in position to change bits. And it was hard to turn.
Then I bought a PC 7518 and put it in my table. A quick spin of the motor gets the collet in whatever position I want. The adjustment is plenty precise for woodworking. It's quick, simple, precise. Life is good, what more could you want? Oh, to do it all above the table. Unless the collet itself will rise above the table, you still have to get down there to tighten it.
I keep a mechanics roll-around stool under my router table. When I pull it out and sit on it, my eyes are right at the table top to check bit height. And I can tighten the collet and adjust the height without stooping to look under the table. Life is good.
I've heard that the electronic speed control on the 7518 is obsolete and allows the speed to fluctuate too much at low speeds. Since 95% of my routing is at top speed anyway, it hasn't been a troublesome issue. Life is good. I'll give up my 7518 when they pry my cold dead fingers from around it.
DonkeyHody "Friends may come and go, but enemies accumulate."
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I guess you have never used a lift. roll-around stool?!?!
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Toller wrote:

Right. It's the simple things Son. You'll understand when you're older. :)
DonkeyHody "Be not the first by which the new is tried, nor the last to lay the old aside."
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On Fri, 29 Dec 2006 16:48:10 -0800, DonkeyHody wrote:

I have no trouble tightening the collet from above the table using the Porter-Cable wrenches. Any decent lift can raise the collet above the table.

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My preference is a fixed base without a lift. I currently use a PC 892. It does have above table adjustment but I don't use it. The reason for fixed base and no lift is that there are times when it is convenient to change router bits without disturbing the rest of the setup. With standard base, you can drop the motor out the bottom. With a plunger or a lift, you can't.

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That metal casing certainly gives me a better initial impression than the day glo plastic Triton, but when you pick one up, you feel a little more sure of its strength. I am pondering the "lower" hp brother to the Triton also. Wish I had your breadth of choices though.
Mike

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There is no doubt about it, the Triton is Butt ugly.
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CW wrote:

Bingo! Easy as pie. The Milwaukee I use, has a button that releases the threaded adjustment bar. Down comes the motor. Change the bit, Up goes the motor to roughly where I want it, let go of the button, and twirl the bit into position. I do like the idea of the Triton's lower minimum speed.
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Fri, Dec 29, 2006, 4:21pm (EST-3) snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com (NeverEnoughMoney) dothclaimeth: <snip> I began to think that we need to re-open the oft discussed topic of routers. So <snip>
I don't think so.
So: 1. I don't know. I don't care. 2. I don't know. I don't care. 3. I don't know. I don't care. 4. I don't know. I don't care. 5. I don't know. I don't care.
JOAT It's not hard, if you get your mind right. - Granny Weatherwax
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You don't mix well at parties, do you?
On Dec 29, 7:05 pm, snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net (J T) wrote:

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He's an ass, just ignore him.
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Locutus wrote:

Hey Locutus ... are you also posting over in the IT Toolbox site?
Bill
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Since I am not sure what that is, I would have to say no. :)
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They do call him "Jerk Of All Time" for a reason.

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I think so.

I have the big Triton and it replaced a large Bosch. The Triton has been doing very well of almost 3 years.

IIRC the Milwaukee has had a couple of models out a bit longer than Triton. PC has recently gotten into the game.

The router lifts are very precise but in 30 years of woodworking I have never needed to be that precise. It is easy enough to eye ball the settings. The built in models are precise enough IMHO, past that it gets a bit AR.
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There are a couple of ways of looking at this. Routers, lifts, most any woodworking tools is a lot like cameras, golf clubs, sports cars, etc.
Most of us can do 95% of our driving in a Ford Pinto. Everyone still driving one, raise their hand. OK, I don't see any.
I bought a Benchdog lift. I like it a lot. I'm not about to part with it. Do I need the precision? Do I need the ability to run it up and down fast (with my cordless drill) to change bits? Do I need to do everything from above the table? It does not matter, I'm using it and enjoy using it.
I've not used any of the new routers but I'm confident they can do everything I "need" but they still do not have the sex appeal of a good lift. If you want to own and use the "best", get a lift with the biggest router available. If you are a minimalist, get a modest priced router that offers above table adjustment.
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Why hasn't any manufacturer produced a really workable router lift able to raise and lower a spiral bit into a mortise for loose tenon joints? I know about converting a drill with a plunge router and foot switch to do this. Would rather buy one if made by Woodpecker or Jessem and not have to play with parts until it worked.
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