Sold on Zinsser BIN !!!!!

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Used it today on a customers kitchen cabinets and I won't buy any other Primer for wood again. It took a little getting use to because its so thin right out of the can. Had a few runs but after adjusting the gun, couldn't believe how easy this stuff flowed. It dried fast and the finish was smooth as glass. I doubt I'll even have to sand it, its sooooo smooth!!! I'm SOLD!!!
The questing now is. How does this stuff sand? Have to sand out the few runs I had.
Rich
--
"You can lead them to LINUX
but you can't make them THINK"
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That's my favorite primer. I have used it on many, many projects and it never fails to perform. I dries fast enough that I don't get nibs, and if I put on the right amount I agree with you; it dries smooth as a baby's butt.
And two coats... it is almost like cheating.
It is soft, though. If I sand it, I use 320g on it. I have found that 220g leaves witness marks from the paper, no matter how careful I am. But I will say this; if it goes on well and the surfaces stay clean, I don't sand at all. Just lay down the finish after it dries (I give it an hour).
Robert
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 01:06:04 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@aol.com"

Do you shoot it or brush it? I've only used it once in a 55F house and didn't have much luck in brushing it. Do you thin it to brush?

I prefer the finer paper, too. 320 or 400 between coats.
-- You are today where your thoughts have brought you; you will be tomorrow where your thoughts take you. -- James Lane Allen
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wrote:

I always spray it. One of the neat features about it is that you don't need to thin when using a 1.4 tip. I have shot that stuff when the temps were in the 50s and when it is in the 90s, and it behaves just the same.
I shoot it out of a cheap, HVLP/CAS gun with a 20 oz cup on top, and that is the gun's only job. I don't do anything else with that gun.
I have tried brushing the BIN, and when in a pinch or working on something small, I use it from the can unthinned. It still works pretty damn well.
When I brush/roll a primer, I go back to Sherwin Williams Pro Block line. It rolls well, brushes well, and dries soft so you can sand easily. You can't spray this stuff as it has a small amount of filler (either quartzite or some kind of glass) in it that makes it perfect for stain blocking and filling small imperfections. It will jam your guns immediately.

Those softer substrates seem to prefer those higher grits. I don't ever sand wood beyond 220g as I have seen enough from my finishing brethren to agree that beyond that you can lessen adhesion. But everything sticks to BIN quite well, so I am more interested in whether a poor surface will reflect back through my finish.
BIN has been around for ages. And like DEFT brand lacquer, it has been around under our noses so long we forget how good that stuff really is at turning out a great product.
Robert
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wrote:

I might as well forget everything I learned about finishing. The sign requirements are vastly different. Good thing I still get to use the techniques I learned over the last 40 years. But the material choices are all new to me. Some make sense, so don't. Hot/cold/wet/dry/UV on new (to me) substrates... My trusty BIN's and Defts aren't recommended for those conditions. I used a LOT of Deft on countertop wooden edges... I have to think more like automotive. S'all good though.
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 01:06:04 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

You'll also get it building up on the sandpaper if you don't sand extremely lightly.
BIN is shellac based. It may look and feel dry after an hour, but it isn't. I usually wait at least over the weekend before I do any sanding of shellac. The longer you can wait the better. It's been said that shellac just keeps getting harder forever.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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On 3/24/2011 11:47 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

That's what she said. <ducking and running>
--
See Nad. See Nad go. Go Nad!
To reply, eat the taco.
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wrote:

BIN is a three pound cut of shellac pigmented with titanium dioxide and some silicates. Normally, brushing unpigmented shellac is done with an approximately 1.5 pound cut (made from diluting 3 lb shellac with an equal volume of alcohol) but once you have enough experience, you can use the three pound cut as is. I suspect the BIN that comes in spray cans is less than a three pound cut.
Shellac is an evaporative finish. That means once the solvent evaporates, the resulting film will not get any harder. It typically takes two hours to be sure that all the alcohol has evaporated from BIN. That's the beauty of using it. A topcoat can be applied about two hours after the BIN goes on. I would like to know who told you that shellac keeps getting harder forever. If it is taking significantly longer than two hours, the BIN may have gone bad as old shellac typically does. It becomes gummy, will not "dry" completely, and clogs sandpaper very easily.
Good Luck
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2011 16:39:37 -0400, Baron wrote:

Take a look at this site:
http://www.woodturnerruss.com/FSOriginal9.html
and skip down to "The Final Touch" heading.
Unfortunately, Russ died a few months ago. I was surprised to see his site still up. He was a great woodturner (look at Gallery 1 and gallery 2 on the site)and a great teacher. He will be missed. I've never found anything he said to be untrue.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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The fellow is not applying just shellac or pigmented shallac as in the case of BIN. He is french polishing using a mixture of a drying oil (linseed) and a non-drying oil (mineral oil). While the mineral oil can be "spirited off" at the end, the linseed oil is not and continues to cure and makes for a soft film until completely cured. Linseed oil, "boiled" or not, takes quite some time to fully cure. Interesting site, though.
Good Luck
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On Fri, 25 Mar 2011 09:08:17 -0400, Baron wrote:

He is *not* using a mixture. Read more carefully:
"For my own finishing, I have never been able to decide between mineral oil, which doesn't, or linseed oil, which does. So, I use both. Which one depends on my mood at the time. Sometimes I give up and use Mystery Oil just to prove to myself that it really doesn't matter."
And his comment on hardening applies to shellac in general, not just the French Polish technique. Again read:
"Shellac will continue to dry and harden for several years, depending on the environment, but a couple weeks is usually sufficient for normal handling and polishing."
And I know he meant that to be shellac in general because he has said so.
--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

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(Not an expert by any means, but my 2, free of charge): In my experience, thin layers of shellac dry to "hard" almost within 10 minutes. After some more time, it may eventually become "rock-hard".
--
Best regards
Han
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Dry to the touch in one second if you're French polishing, two hour wait between sessions is enough to prevent ridging.
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A final polish with swirl remover a week after letting the shellac cure saves you the spiriting off step and won't burn through due to momentarily not paying attention.
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You guys cover your projects in... bug juice...what's next, milk paint, ambergis? It would make a whale gag.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/285749/Indian-lac-insect
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
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You better avoid M&M's then. They're coated with bug-juice.
scott
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writes:

SL:
I'm just joshing with Han. The "bug juice" primarily intended was that mystery concoction poured out at summer camp.
Is it the cochineal insect (mealy bug) that makes the red M&Ms special?
There is an "Insect Fair" here every year with an assortment of edible six-legs on the menu. In Vietnam there is a tasty moth attracted to the same campfires which serve as fast-food outlets for the humans sitting around. Roasted beetles distinctive for their nutty flavor are a roadside standard in Thailand. Witchetty grubs are famous native fare in the Australian interior. Eating bugs is natural. But that thoseWicthetty grubs look a bit much like Jabba The Hutt wouldn't help them with Star Wars fans here.
I don't know if the switch to synthetic alternatives has killed the ambergris market but I do know that if not, a large lump can be worth well into the six figures no matter the original fragrance alerting the beachcomber's nose.
BTW, the bug responsible for shellac derived the name "Lac" from the word for "hundred thousand", it taking 300,000 individuals to yield a kilogram of shellac.
Here's a comment on the insect's use of its protective coating which may have bearing on the hardness discussion:
When it has fixed its position and inserted its probocis into the trees it secretes a protective coating consisting of a dark red chitinous scale and a yellow to reddish resin called the lac resin. The insects mature under the protective covering of the resin which becomes hard. Wax glands near the vital pores - the oval region, the breathing pores and the anal pore keep them open by secreting wax filaments.
Regards,
Edward Hennessey
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I never went to summer camp in the States. Now it's time for my grandkids to go to summercamp. Hence my silent wondering at your statements, Edward - I forgot about that meaning of bug juice <so sorry>. NOW I understand what you meant.
Btw, I met my wife of almost 44 years in summercamp during the summer before our senior year in high school, so summer camp has very good memories for me.
--
Best regards
Han
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On 3/26/2011 6:53 AM, Han wrote:

"Hello muddah, hello faddah" ... thought all this time that was just a "figment of imagination" song. ;)
Went to a wedding, with a "summer camp" theme, in Fredericksburg, TX last weekend. The couple met in a Jewish summer camp in the Texas hill country some fifteen years ago. The rehearsal dinner on Saturday evening was MC'ed by their camp counselor at the time, and the dress was "summer camp casual".
They served "smore's" (?) ... apparently a staple of summer camp cuisine and something I'd never heard of, not having ever gone to a "camp" as a kid, except to hunt or fish.
It was a hoot, in the expected juvenile sort of way ... but they did enjoy that shellac'ed table ... to wander back on topic.
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www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 4/15/2010
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I would have advised them to enjoy it too, it's gorgeous ... Maybe I'll use the idea and the "Karl Caillouet MissionHallTable.skp" file I downloaded from you, although it isn't the style my wife is most enamoured of. Tough ...
--
Best regards
Han
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