scary sharp question


Folks -
I have the first incarnation of the Veritas chisel sharpening setup, and I've been using and have had good luck with it and scary sharpening...
However, I notice that the backs and also the bevels, while having a mirror finish, aren't square. The edges of the backs have an ever so slight rounding, and the bevels are more of a very gentle thumbnail profile, rather than square ( more like ( than | if you will) I'm sure that the chisel is moving slightly in relation to the paper, but how do I correct for it? The veritas jig holds the chisel with a big screw, but it can still pivot off of "TDC".
The chisels are sharp enough, and maybe it's not that big a deal, but I am in the process of doing a full sharpening and polishing on about 10 chisels and thought I'd ask for some feedback.
John
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Buy the new and improved version. didn't you read my thread about the MKII???
Dave
John Moorhead wrote:

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Seconded. The new one is *much* improved. Even a hamfisted idiot like me can sharpen something to square. It's flat out the best jig available.
Regards, JT
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On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 15:57:38 +0000 (UTC), John Thomas

JT,
When you say 'best jig available', which others have you used to do your comparison?
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wrote:

I've used a side-clamp jig (General?), and the Veritas "original". Probably not exhaustive enough to really warrant the statement I made, but OTOH, are there really any other types that are significantly different?
Regards, JT
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John, For a "significantly different" honing guide try the "Sharpening Sled" @ www.alisam.com! We offer a unique solution to all the honing guides out there. Why buy both Garrett Wade models when one of ours will do? Tim Q
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John Thomas wrote:

This is my favorite:
<http://www.garrettwade.com/jump.jsp?itemType=PRODUCT&iProductID 5910>
I also own the original Veritas, a General, some no name jig that holds the edge, and some shop made guides.
Barry
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Yeah, that one looks nice; a shame it won't go wider than it does, though.
I've a fair number of plane irons that need sharpening, so that would be a deal-breaker for me.
Good link, thanks!
Regards, JT
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John Thomas wrote:

The long version opens to about 2 1/2".
Barry
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Should've look further -- didn't see that there was a long version ...
Regards, JT
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John Moorhead says...

I gave up on guides for the most part and this article reinforced my decision: http://www.antiquetools.com/sharp/index.html . With a little practice, it is arguably faster and easier to to it by hand, and if you use water stones like I do, you can spread the wear better. I just sharpened all of my massive collection of eight chisels this way to hair shaving satisfaction. I think a very slight rounding of the bevel is more or less unavoidable doing it by hand, but that it isn't a problem because it takes the place of the micro-bevel most people recommend. It should be easy to avoid rounding the back side of the edge. If you are seeing that, then it may be because of the softness of the paper backing of the sandpaper. This has occurred to me before and is one reason I'm not sold on scary sharp. The few times I used scary sharp, I did all the motion in a backwards direction so that I wouldn't be chiseling up the abrasive. There may be a reason not to do this that I'm not aware of, but I thought the result I got was good. I still think guides are useful for redefining the angle of the bevel once in a great while since honing by hand will probably result in the angle drifting over time.
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Hax, you have some very good offerings with experience and common sense. I am accurate enough to do it by hand as well but I must use the guide because of my nerve condition, builds up a lot of pain in my hands.
but a couple strong points, the reason for going forwards is to avoid the burs that build up, all the abrasive remains anyway, while breaking down and filling with steel powder.
Another point, about flattening and mirroring the back using SS is that papers like 1200 and 1500 are so hard, thin and flat once properly glued down on glass it won't round the back's cutting edge, you just have to be carefull enough to totally hold down the blade *flat* while doing it, that can be hard while getting it to finished. Thick glass is paramount for stability, mine is 3/4", junk shop.
The final perfection is using leather. I bought horse butt online, and I use the two grits of rougher blue/gray emery and then Veritas green which a very fine 0.5 micron, quite awesome stuff! On that package it (Mr. Lee no doubt) suggests to use tallow or any kind of hard fat in the leather, doesn't take much and then less than that, before applying the compounds. I have come to realize, the thickest toughest strapping and tooling leather would be best. the result is great and creates that rounded micro bevel, hand done.
--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
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AAvK says...

Sounds good, but I guess my other beef with scary sharp is convenience. Like once you glue sandpaper onto the glass, it has to come off at some point? Do you use the 3M spray adhesive to hold the sandpaper down? Then you have to get the glass clean again, or it won't be flat. It just seems easier to me to pull a water stone out of the tub. I remember from the original SS messages some people were using a half dozen or more grits. I like sharp as much as the next guy, but a that many grits seemed a bit much.
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On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:49:50 -0500, Hax Planx wrote:

Yes, removing the paper is a pain. However, a soak in hot water makes it much simpler to peel off with a razor scraper. The half-dozen grits are what makes it so cool. You can chop out the grit scars very quickly. You'd have to have almost a half-dozen waterstones to do the same thing. Remember, you have to keep flattening the waterstones. I figure that maintenance is about the same hassle as changing paper.
I switched to waterstones from SS. I can get a mirror on the backs of blades with SS, but not on stones. Operator error, probably, nevertheless I keep my SS slab set up for back polishing.
Last, I'll put in a plug for the Ice Bear 10k. It may not be a Shapton, but it cuts verra fast.
--
"Keep your ass behind you"
vladimir a t mad scientist com
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Yes, then I use a sharpened Hyde putty knife to remove it then paint thinner to remove the adhesive.

Hax I concur entirely with Vladimir. I bought stones for two conveniences against peeling and cleaning, but the SS remains important for mirroring the backs and doing touch-ups at the finest grits. I still recommend the leather stropping and compounds.
--
Alex - newbie_neander in woodworking
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Find the new issue of PopWood, and look for the David Charlesworth article on sharpening.
Then put all you think you know about sharpening into that context...
Then read Adam Churbini's article on handplanes use and naming.
Certain things are important, others less so.
Popular Woodworking had a pretty good month.
Patriarch
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Cool! I'll look for it.
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