Saw Stop

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I was at the yard where I get most of my pine yesterday and I overheard a conversation about Saw Stop. One of the guys was saying that the Saw Stop safety mechanism will sometimes engage when no hand/finger/whatever touched the blade. Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?
Thanks, J
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Google this group and you will see tons of discussion on this topic.
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Hello Stout - I did and my Reply is below.
But, this does bring me to add my two cents on the subject of *redundancy of topic* as this seems to come up from time-to-time. I woulld suggest to you guys that there is nothing wrong with such under certain (probably many) circumstances. At times I get the feeling that once a Thread -with a particular Subject- has been posted and run its course, that is supposed to close the door on the subject. For example; because we had a post on Saw Stop I am supposed to search and read. If I don't find an adequate answer to my currrent question - too bad. This attitude assumes that everything anyone ever wanted to know about the subject was contained within that original Thread and there can be no further input, no new information, no additional opinions, etc. From my perspective this group has a significant number of members who float in and out. It is possible that not everyone with something to say added to that original message. Further, in this case the subject deals with a rather new technology. There might be new information. In fact, I was here on the group when the thread passed through earlier this year. Before I posted today I looked at the SS website (again) and then googled and yahoo'ed the subject. I was still not satisfied that I had an answer so I posted the specific question. At the very least I can hope that the thread helps Mort make his decision.
Cheers, J
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If you did, you wouldn't be asking the same question that has been asked and reanswered several times. Your question "Any of you guys have experience with Saw Stop?". Googling Saw Stop alone would have revealed that, Yes, several people have experience with Saw Stop. Your statements regarding the "safety mechanism" and its tendency to engage with no flesh contact, has also been discussed ad nauseam.
Your are more than welcome to ask this question on a daily basis (it's a free world), but nevertheless I though my suggestion might be helpful.
Flame me if you want...

You weren't satisfied when you found out that several people have had experience with Saw Stop?
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My understanding is that if any embedded metal touches the blade it will activate the stop mechanism. Also wet or green lumber can also trigger it. Basically I think anything that has a lower resistance than dry wood will result in activation, so maybe some painted and laminated surfaces will trip it as well.
I'm researching the SawStop for purchase by a school district and have contacted the manufacture directly and received a reply, but I still don't have a reliable answer to some questions. Like what happens with a fast feed rate? On their website (www.sawstop.com) they have a video that shows a hotdog being pushed into the blade and the result of the blade stopping just nicking the surface of the hotdog, but nowhere is it mentioned the feed rate a which this demonstration was done.
Also, they don't have any data (at least none that they would share with me) related to kickbacks. As I'm sure everyone here is aware the speed at which a kickback occurs, I have doubts on the usefulness of the SawStop mechanism in a kickback situation.
Mort
Joe Bemier wrote:

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On 9 Jul 2006 12:21:44 -0700, in rec.woodworking, "Mort Stevens"

This was actually the first time I'd heard of this impressive system, but http://www.sawstop.com/how-it-works-overview.htm says the following about the hotdog video:
"The photo at the right shows what happens on a SawStop saw when a hotdog (representing a finger) hits the spinning blade at a speed of about 1 foot per second. "
Forrest
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Forrest Anderson snipped-for-privacy@military-researcher.com
Edinburgh
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wrote:

Thanks, Mort - very useful. Also, very interesting that you should mention feed rate because those guys touched on that point and I did not recall it until I read your message. Considering the cost of replacement of the mechanism I would need to feel confident that the thing is not going to trigger due to say *imperfections* of some kind. Unfortunately, I was not able to get more info but it sounded like one of the guys owned the machine and was not happy with it.
Good luck with your research. My concern with having these machies in a school would be that kids might develop a sense of security working on one and then go out into the real world and use a conventional saw and have an accident.
Also, I did not consider Kickbacks but I'll bet you are correct.
Thanks, J
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You know, I think I could watch that thing fire on 10 hot dogs and not develop a sense of security to putting my hand into the blade.
todd
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Joe Bemier wrote:

Forget the cost of the mechanisms. Even if they trigger once a week your insurer is certain to order you to upgrade as soon as the insurance contract re-ups. One trip to the emergency room with a student will buy one heck of a lot of cartridges and blades.
The review I read stated there was a test mechanism you could use to see if the machine was likely to trigger.
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Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:

Do you have any incident to relate in which an insurer "ordered" a school district to replace all of its non-sawstop saws?

--
--John
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J. Clarke wrote:

Not yet, but my work is in the risk management field. It is close to being a metaphysical certainty that the insurers will do this as soon as they realize that there is an option.
The cost of replacing a table saw with a saw stop is trivial, $3500 is nothing compared to the cost of a negligence lawsuit. The risk of injury is clearly very high, the cost of the injury anywhere up to a million dollars or so (kid loses hand).
If you want to make something happen fast there are two ways to do it, either you make it an audit requirement or you make it an insurance requirement.
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What would more likely happen in our district is that they would simply close down the remaining shop programs, and retire the few shop teachers still active.
A shame, too.
Patriarch
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On Mon, 10 Jul 2006 13:03:41 -0500, Patriarch

You're right - I've heard that tune before
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Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote:

In other words "no". I suspect that any insurance company that told a school district to replace a power tool with another one that was more costly and didn't work any better would be told that their services would no longer be required.
This assumes of course that they do not self-insure already.
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school
If that's the case, insurance companies would have mandated air bags in cars, no smoking in homes, etc.
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-Mike-
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Well, there are discounts for both however insurance companies cannot require you to do business with them. Air bags pay for themselves in insurance premium discounts.
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Leon wrote:

Why would an insurance company give a discount for a piece of equipment that is required by law to be present?
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It is still quite possible to buy a used car that is not equipped with air bags, or even seat belts for that matter. AFAIK there is no jurisdiction in the country that has required retrofitting either.
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Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland
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On Tue, 11 Jul 2006 00:13:04 -0500, snipped-for-privacy@fellspt.charm.net () wrote:

I think seat belts are required by law. At least when I went to have my 1974 BMW 2002 inspected the guy checked out the seat belts saying something like...."you never know with these older cars"

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"Joe Bemier" wrote in message

That depends upon where you are. IIRC, Arkansas no longer requires minimum vehicle safety inspections. In Texas only the law abiding are required to, everyone else gets a surrogate hundred dollar bill inspected.
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