Salt!!!!!

[Tim Douglass]

The development of the .308 was a step on the way to the .223. The goal of the .308 was to duplicate 30-06 ballistics in a smaller case, enabling a soldier to carry more rounds and making a shorter action in the firearm, which would allow for more reliable fully automatic fire. Due to the quirks of interior ballistics a .308 firing the same bullet at the same velocity as a 30-06 has *higher* felt recoil thanks to greater chamber pressure.

Most of the old military rifles had hardwood stocks, some actually had quite nice wood until the armory and the troops soaked them with cosmoline and gun oil. Gun oil, even if purchased from Denmark, doesn't really give a Danish oil type finish.

Tim Douglass

[dave in fairfax]

I like my .45, but for a serious weapon I think the AR-10 beats the M-16 hollow.

Dave in Fairfax

[Charlie Self]

Never heard of a Marine Corps armory soaking a stock in cosmoline or gun oil. We sure as hell spent more time than I liked rubbing raw linseed oil into the stocks at Parris Island. Takes forever to get a high gloss--required, though. No BLO allowed until later, which saved some time but was an absolutely awful finish for something that got banged, scraped and rained on with too great frequency.

Charlie Self I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected.

[Wood Butcher]

And a tiny nit in your nit. The chamber pressure is an indirect cause. The shorter barrel length results in a shorter bullet acceleration time and a higher & narrower energy impulse delivered to the gun, which gives the higher felt recoil. If the gun is also lighter than the 30-06 (I don't know) this will also contribute to a higher recoil.

Art

[snip]

[CW]

There's not a lot that isn't better than an M-16.

[BruceR]

Should read "150 grain bullet".

-Bruce

SNIP

[dave in fairfax]

M-16s aren't a bad weapon, I just think that an AR-10 gives you more bang for the buck. It's an M-16 in a .308 version. A bit heavier to handle the larger shell, but accurate for a lot further and still good up close. If you haven't try one. They are terrific for pig or deer.

Just my .02 Dave in Fairfax

[Tim Douglass]

You are quite right that either a shorter barrel or lighter rifle will increase felt recoil (in fact a lighter rifle increases the real free recoil energy), but, bearing in mind that I'm not a ballistician (nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night), what I understand is the thing between the .308 and 30-06 is that for exactly the same bullet weight, barrel length and muzzle velocity the .308 will generate a faster rise in the pressure curve which causes the recoil to *feel* greater. The total free recoil energy (area under the curve) is identical but the shape of the curve is quite different. You can create the same difference in felt recoil by using faster or slower burning powder as well. In loading for an older friend of mine I use as slow a powder as I can get away with because it flattens the pressure curve and takes some of the edge off the recoil.

Tim Douglass

[CW]

[Tom Watson]

The M-16 seems like a McWeapon to me, while the 03 seems like a real rifle.

I never got bit but I was taught by a man with suspiciously mangled thumbnails.

I used to have a military version but the trigger was tricked. Now I have what they call a 1991 and the pull is heavy but not jerky. I've screwed it to the bench and it's not the most accurate piece in the world but I can slow-fire group it to four inches at fifty feet, and that's plenty good for me.

I'll confess that I am with the man who said, "A pistol is a weapon that you use to fight your way back to your rifle."

Thomas J. Watson - Cabinetmaker (ret.) (Real Email is tjwatson1ATcomcastDOTnet)

[Charlie Self]

I think that's why they give pistols to officers: they're not expected to really fight. They're there to scream and wave their arms while the NCOs direct the fight.

Charlie Self In a New Hampshire Jewelry store: "Ears pierced while you wait."