routing shelf grooves question

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I will be making 4 cabinets to hold my sheet music collection. Cabinets will be circa 4' tall. Shelves will be approx. 10" wide and 13" deep. Shelves are to be thin Masonite (1/8" ?) sliding shelves held in grooves approximately 1" apart vertically. Obviously there will not be a shelf ever 1", but the ability to adjust shelves within a 1" increment.
Question: What would be a nice jig / setup to create the repetitive dado pattern with a router. BTW, these will not be furniture quality cabinets, strictly for storage and retrieval of collection. Will be using 3/4" particle board with real wood face frame so the grooves don't chip out.
All comments and help very appreciated.
Ivan Vegvary
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On 12/24/12 10:50 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:

You make a base for your router that has a 1/8" strip glued to it, situated 1" from the slot cutting bit. Once the first slot if cut, the slot in the base rides in that first slot, cutting another slot exactly 1" from the first. Continue in each consecutive slot cut.
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I'm not much of a woodworker yet, but I'm having doubts about this method. Wouldn't there be a small amount of imprecision that could sum up to a large amount over the course of a few dozen grooves? And the two uprights have to match each other as well.
Oh and by the way, what is this "sheet music" thing you speak of? :)
[I'm much more musician than woodworker, tallying perhaps 2000 gigs in my 40-year part-time "career". Still waiting for that first piece of sheet music though. About the closest I came was a "lead sheet" for the usual wedding recessional provided generously by our bandleader at the time. It was a ragged-edged 3" x 8" scrap, a twelfth-generation Xerox of a Fake Book page. There were exactly three single staves, along with a decade of cocktail-hour food stains and several permutations of rewritten chord changes that had accumulated as it passed through various musicians' hands. ]
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On 12/25/2012 8:49 AM, Greg Guarino wrote: \

It was originally designed to make lead guitar players turn down their amps.

Not a jazz/swing bass player, eh? They are great for music that is other than three chords, with a minor, or VI/II/V/I turn around, thrown in and/or when a guest singer sits-in and has no idea what a key is.
Just ask any bass player, arguably the only player in the band who must instantly, and magically, know ALL the changes to a song, and in any key.
IOW, when the last time you saw a bass capo? ;)
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I may have to find some then.

All common occurrences on our gigs, but still no sheet music, or lead sheets for that matter. Age helps in that regard; we've all played many hundreds of tunes in a wide variety of genres, and each of them in several keys it seems (comes with the territory when playing with vocalists). But beyond the experience, we all grew up at a time when authentic-sounding arrangements were simply unavailable as sheet music. If you wanted to play a song you had to learn it by ear. These days a "rehearsal" consists of a round of "Reply to all" emails and an mp3. Each guy learns his part, with the expectation that the key will likely be adjusted at the gig to suit the vocalist.

True enough, but our bassist uses no charts, and looks to me for the tricky parts when we pull a request out of the air on a gig. By contrast, he's much better at remembering the overall arrangement: tempo, how many verses, choruses, bars of outro, etc.

I've heard rumors of a bass player that used one, but it's hard to imagine how he could show his face among other musicians. Besides, I detect damned few open-string bass notes from the other side of our bandstand; given that, what good is a capo?
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On 12/26/2012 8:32 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

Most gigging musicians I know play in many more than one band, many times hired for single gig by someone who flies in from out of town, or vice versa ... being able to read/play from charts, for both music and arrangements, is an absolute *requirement* to make it in that world ... different world entirely than playing in a local band.
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Sure, there are different circumstances. I was playing with three rather different groups at one point myself. While my chops are merely average, I am unusually adept at playing tunes I don't know, a quirk that has served me well over the years. On a number of occasions I have had to call out changes to a band full of superior musicians, and have played along to songs I have never actually heard.
The original comment was about "sheet music" rather than charts, and was intended to be humorous; highlighting the different approaches people apply to their music. And yes, in certain situations even the dreaded sheet music may be required.
I still think it may be carcinogenic though. :)
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Greg Guarino wrote:

Nope.
That's why you cut the grooves across the sheet before you cut the sheet into uprights. Even if you don't and even if there is a variation in the grooves the worst that will happen is that the shelves will be slightly - emphasize, slightly - less than level. No big thing.

Perhaps you know them as "charts".
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wrote:

And if you have two boards (one for each side) join them together temporarily so they come out perfectly even.
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On 12/25/12 8:49 AM, Greg Guarino wrote:

google "box joint router jig" and you'll see some illustration of the kind of thing I'm talking about. Like these... http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page !338 http://www.routerworkshop.com/boxjoints.html Same concept, can be modified for cutting repeated dadoes at equal spacing.
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On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 06:49:30 -0800, Greg Guarino wrote:

If you cut the first groove across all uprights at once, either while they're all one piece or with an edge guide on the router, you'll have an identical starting point on all uprights. If your spacing interval is off a mite it won't matter as all uprights will have the same accumulated error.
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On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 08:00:36 -0700, Mike Marlow wrote

If you start at the sam end of each upright (say, from the bottom), any errors should accumulate in the same direction and result in identical uprights...
If the grooves are so narrow, a non-router alternative would be the same thin strip of wood glued into a table saw guide bar (also made of wood). Think of a simple panel sled. The blade would make a 1/8" groove which could be widened with a second, slightly offset jig.
-Bruce

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If you have shelves every 1 or 1 1/2" apart, it'll keep your stacks of music much shorter. Short stacks are easier to sort through, even when organized. With a shelf of around 1/8" thickness dadoed on 3 sides, I'm fairly certain it'll support the weight easily.
In building the cabinet, I'd cut the dadoes first then cut the sides apart. That way, the grooves will line up perfectly and there's less repositioning of the jig.
Puckdropper
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If I was cutting 1/8" grooves I would use a tablesaw, probably with a sled of some kind. But to answer your question, it wouldnt be hard to make a baseplate fixture for your router that indexes off the first groove, and cuts the next 1 inch further away,
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plausible, and wrong." (H L Mencken)
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...
First, in answer to your question the solution given by -MIKE- is the correct one. As to "imprecison" the only "imprecision" present will possibly be in a fractional difference - 1.12 inches say as against 1.000 inches in the spaces between each and every groove.
However as you don't need to run the grooves right down to the bottom in any case - as you say you won't have any sheet music at less than 1 inch - providing you start from the top of each upright - and mark them up as you go - this won't be a problem. Especially as you say, you're using a real wood face so as to cover the grooves.
This latter isn't strictly necessary as you could instead stop the grooves say 1 inch from the front although this would mean cutting a corresponding 1 inch notch on the sides of each shelf at the front so they would fit flush.
As you say there won't ever be a 1 inch shelf, I'm assuming you intend to store the music vertically and not horizontally i.e laying flat.
But then as the projected cabinets are only 4 ft tall and the majority of the sheet music in your collection, when measured will presumably fall between 9 inches and 18 inches high its questionable to me at least what benefit having adjustable shelving will offer you. In other words how many combinations of useful shelf heights - in sheet music terms - are achievable in 4 ft high cabinets to start with.
Rather than making the cabinets to suit what you already have.
Three general observations about adjustable shelving, which may or may not be true.
In general adjustable shelving in cabinet form - as against wall bracket shelving - appeals most to people who can't make their own cabinets to suit.
Once assembled most adjustable shelving is never altered.
I've got no experience of shelving sheet music but plenty of shelving books. It doesn't matter how adjustable your shelving may be in theory, it will never solve the perennial problem of never being able to shelve vastly different sized books - (or sheet music) on or by the same subject or author (or genre or composer) right next to one another.
michael adams
...
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...
First, in answer to your question the solution given by -MIKE- is the correct one. As to "imprecison" the only "imprecision" present will possibly be in a fractional difference - 1.12 inches say as against 1.000 inches in the spaces between each and every groove.
However as you don't need to run the grooves right down to the bottom in any case - as you say you won't have any sheet music at less than 1 inch - providing you start from the top of each upright - and mark them up as you go - this won't be a problem. Especially as you say, you're using a real wood face so as to cover the grooves.
....
< please ignore the following paragraph. The real wood face bit confused me as obviously you can't have adjustable shelving with a stopped groove. Presumably the wood facing is removed prior to adjustment>
This latter isn't strictly necessary as you could instead stop the grooves say 1 inch from the front although this would mean cutting a corresponding 1 inch notch on the sides of each shelf at the front so they would fit flush.
< /please ignore >
As you say there won't ever be a 1 inch shelf, I'm assuming you intend to store the music vertically and not horizontally i.e laying flat.
But then as the projected cabinets are only 4 ft tall and the majority of the sheet music in your collection, when measured will presumably fall between 9 inches and 18 inches high its questionable to me at least what benefit having adjustable shelving will offer you. In other words how many combinations of useful shelf heights - in sheet music terms - are achievable in 4 ft high cabinets to start with.
Rather than making the cabinets to suit what you already have.
Three general observations about adjustable shelving, which may or may not be true.
In general adjustable shelving in cabinet form - as against wall bracket shelving - appeals most to people who can't make their own cabinets to suit.
Once assembled most adjustable shelving is never altered.
I've got no experience of shelving sheet music but plenty of shelving books. It doesn't matter how adjustable your shelving may be in theory, it will never solve the perennial problem of never being able to shelve vastly different sized books - (or sheet music) on or by the same subject or author (or genre or composer) right next to one another.
michael adams
...
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Will be using 3/4" particle board with real wood face frame so the grooves don't chip out.

Thanks to everyone for the good advice. I'll make the jig and route all the verticals in one pass before cutting them out of the full sheet of particle board. For those that are confused re purpose: The sheets of music will be stored flat. If I stack it all up, I have approximately 12 feet of music. They will all be sorted by instrument, genre, type and alphabetically within the above groups. A few groupings will be less than an inch high while some of them will be 15-20 inches high, e.g., songs that start with the letter "I". I'm able to retrieve about 3" of music before I stain my wrist or damage the sheets. Ergo, at some point I might have an 1-1/2" stack whereby I will slide the next shelf in approx. an inch above, leaving room for finger tips. THE SHELVES WILL ALL BE REMOVABLE AT ALL TIMES". In fact, if I want access to a certain section I will slide the shelf out with all the music thereon. This is a lot kinder to the music although it puts wear and stress on the grooves. This storage system will always be in flux, since, if I find another 1 ft. stack at a garage sale, they will all be sorted, alphabetized, added to my database and interleaved with the existing music. Therefore, all the music might have to shift around after a significant purchase, or sale.
Hope that explains the use, thanks again for the great advice.
Ivan Vegvary
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On 12/25/2012 10:21 PM, Ivan Vegvary wrote:

Ivan, make sure to round the back corners on the "shelves" to make it a bit easier to install. Also cut a "finger grip" point on the front center of the shelves like this, only on the front of each shelf: http://scrapbookersinnercircle.com/Scrapbook-Paper-Storage.html
I don't know how tall you are thinking for these units, but I suspect you will need a 3/4" top, bottom and center to keep the sides of the carcass from spreading.
If you cap the front edges with hardwood, you won't be able to slide the shelves in and out. I don't think chip out will be a problem if you rout or saw your slots on the entire sheep before cutting out carcass sides.
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On 12/26/2012 7:02 AM, DanG wrote:

Dan, that's not true, what he is doing is capping the front edges so his case stays nicer longer. The hardwood would have the dado cut into it too, so that the particle board doesn't wear at the edge.
I would just index a router, put an indexing key that fits the dado in the tbar fence that you make to guide the router at the distance from the last dado. So 1" on center? or 1 and 1/8 on center, whatever you are looking for. This will allow you to have accurate dados that line up on both sides. Make sure the fence is to the correct side of the entry. You want the bit to spin and push the router to the fence when cutting, so it tracks correctly. Doing the opposite the router will wander away from the fence.
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On Tue, 25 Dec 2012 20:21:44 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary

verticals in one pass before cutting them out of the full sheet of particle board.

approximately 12 feet of music. They will all be sorted by instrument, genre, type and alphabetically within the above groups. A few groupings will be less than an inch high while some of them will be 15-20 inches high, e.g., songs that start with the letter "I". I'm able to retrieve about 3" of music before I stain my wrist or damage the sheets. Ergo, at some point I might have an 1-1/2" stack whereby I will slide the next shelf in approx. an inch above, leaving room for finger tips. THE SHELVES WILL ALL BE REMOVABLE AT ALL TIMES". In fact, if I want access to a certain section I will slide the shelf out with all the music thereon. This is a lot kinder to the music although it puts wear and stress on the grooves.

stack at a garage sale, they will all be sorted, alphabetized, added to my database and interleaved with the existing music. Therefore, all the music might have to shift around after a significant purchase, or sale.

I think the best advice would be to keep them in a file cabinet under pressure. Open sheets of paper will collect moisture and wrinkle, increasing storage space and decreasing legibility. I keep my sandpaper in packs under pressure, too, as it tends to do the same thing.
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