Re: My second kickback - time for a question

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If I understand you correctly, that would give you a greater chance of kick back as it is generally the wood engaging the back of the blade that causes the kick back.
Many recommend toeing the fence out slightly (1/64") at the back ... AWAY from the blade.
Sounds like you are not using a splitter ... if not, you should be. Your two kick backs could have more than likely be prevented with one. A poorly aligned saw will also give you a greater propensity for kick back.
You need to sit back and figure out what is causing this ... a good book on table saws, like Kelly Mehler's, appears to be in order.
... and don't stand directly behind the blade.
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 8/16/03
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Why does it sound to me like someone is trying to use a mitergauge and a rip fence at the same time?
If I am right, remember that a rip fence is not a substitute for a stop block. You can always clamp on a short stop block that ends before the blade begins.
--


"G.E.R.R.Y." <DON' snipped-for-privacy@aci.on.ca> wrote in message
news:200820031036428007%DON' snipped-for-privacy@aci.on.ca...
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"G.E.R.R.Y." wrote:

This is a common technique for ripping thin stock. You put a board along your fence such that it only extends from the front of the saw to the back of the blade. This becomes the fence that the wood rides against. This also provides a "relief" gap directly past the blade to help keep stock from being trapped between the blade and the fence. I believe I saw this in Mahlers (sp?) tablesaw book.
-Bruce

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All the books I've seen give you two options: (1) fence parallel with blade along entire length and use a good splitter/riving knife or (2) toe-out back end of fence away from blade by 1/64".
Wider, not narrower.
Suggest you share more with the group on saw specifics; stock specifics; technique.
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tnfkajs wrote:

I read his comment to suggest the fence be manufactured 1/8" thinner at the last 1/3 of its length, thereby allowing slightly more free room there.
--
Mortimer Schnerd, RN

snipped-for-privacy@carolina.rr.com.BARF
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I attached UHMW to the entire lenth of the fence of the saw. I also bought a Bies Splitter w/pawls that has never failed me and I have gotten to see it work. So it saved me at least once. You know, I only was overjoyed at having spent $125 on that little device. I never thought "gee, could've saved that money and taken my chances at dodging that peice of wood". By the way, NEVER put UHMW on the fence of your miter guage. Most people attach a super fine grit say 400-600 grit sandpaper on the miter guage fence to keep wood from slipping as they cut it. Don't want anything but a fine grit-more coarse will mean more sanding later on.
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 12:24:06 -0400, "G.E.R.R.Y."

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setup and technique are enough to prevent kickback most of the time.

Yes, but again unnecessary IMHO. See my other post in this thread for further advice. My wife tells me I repeat myself often enough as it is. :-)

Hey, we've all been there at one time or another. Don't worry about it.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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"G.E.R.R.Y." wrote in message
If you will answer the question, "Were you using a splitter?", you might get more information that will help you.

Terribly bad idea ... hardly think what the rest of the woodworking world needs is a tapered fence.
Simple solution: Adjust your methods of use and alignment to those that are tried and true down through the years and you will be safer, get better cuts, and more enjoyment out of the tool.

I don't subscribe to the theory, but respect those that do ... and there are bunch of knowledgeable woodworkers who do toe their fence out 1/64" at the back.
You need to try it to see if helps your situation ... do this while your are aligning your saw, but do that FIRST.

Again, you would be better off using a splitter if you haven't been; aligning your saw; not standing in harms way; buying a book on table saw use and safety; and trying toeing your fence out the recommended amount
Forget all the other stop gap measures and advice ... they are unsatisfactory and will compound the problem.
--
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wrote:

Oops - sorry then. Misunderstood "narrow" in the context.

That's the point - it is not parallel, but the idea is that 1/64" at the back end of the fence has no discernable effect on the cut. Whether 1/64 is enough or not, I don't think the answer is cut-n-dried. It probably would be enough for many potential kick-backs and insufficient for a few.

Again, I think consensus is that you would end the "auxillary fence" about 2" *before* the start of the blade.
To me - I think the best approach is to do what you can to avoid kickback - fence parallel to the blade - good splitter
then make sure you're prepared for the event - concentrate - keep fingers clear - stand the hell out of the way
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I bought the Accuset, (Amazon.com product link shortened) which claims accuracy of "better than 10/1000 inches". Well, turns out that it is closer to 15/1000 or 1/64". I found this out by measuring. Then, I spoke to someone at the company, maybe the boss. The leg for the outfeed (they have to make an assumption there as to what side the fence is on) is set 1/64" off so that when the scales line up the thing actually is not parallel. I never could get an answer I could understand when I asked how a device with a 1/64" offset could claim 10/1000" accuracy. Returned it.
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I think you're going a far with 1/8th inch. What about the outer edge of the cut pulling in toward the back of the blade. You know, the teeth on the blade are NOT flush. Seems like after you make the cut the outside of the wood goes in toward the body of the blade, and by the time it reaches the back would be flexing against the disc, and heading right into back teeth.
Am I crazy?
--
The software said it ran under Windows 98/NT/2000, or better.
So I installed it on Linux...
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Leon wrote:

Set it *dead* parallel and use a push board rather than a push stick to better hold the workpiece down. With T-square fence set at an angle, changing the blade height changes the rip width, rendering the scale useless.
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Persisely... ;~)
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miter slots, the fence is necessarily parallel to the blade as well. If the fence toes out from the miter slot by a given amount, it necessarily toes out from the blade by exactly the same amount.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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How big is the workpiece?
From your injuries, it seems they might be quite small. Small pieces, especially ones that are nearly square, pose a high risk of kickback due to the possibility of the piece rotating as it passes between the fence and blade. A tiny amount of rotation -- even just a few thousandths of an inch -- can be enough to cause a violent kickback.
A splitter, which can prevent kickback on longer pieces, especially those with internal stresses, does not protect against this particular type of kickback. The best solution for cutting small pieces is to use a jig; often a crosscut sled will suffice.
Cheers!
Jim
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He said he thought the *fence* should be narrower, not the gap between the fence and the blade.

-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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properly prepared stock, this isn't an issue.
First off, proper use.
If you're using the rip fence as a length stop for crosscuts, this is the cause of your kickbacks, when the cutoff binds between the blade and the fence. Don't do that. Instead, clamp a block to the rip fence, that extends no farther back than the leading edge of the blade, and use that as your length stop.
Make sure that the boards you are cutting stay flat against the table at all times. Use hold-down jigs or featherboards, if necessary, to achieve this. If the stock comes up from the surface of the table, it's very easy for the teeth of the blade to catch it and throw it back at you.
*ALWAYS* use a splitter or riving knife for *ALL* cuts that go all the way through the wood.
Also, stand off to one side a bit. If you're not in line with the blade, you won't get hit by stuff that's thrown back.
Next, stock preparation.
Wood must be straight and flat before you attempt to rip it on a table saw. Warped, bowed, twisted, or cupped boards can easily be seized by the blade, and kicked back. If your wood isn't straight and flat, then either make it so with a jointer and planer (see the latest issue of Fine Woodworking for a great article on stock preparation), or use a band saw to cut it.
Finally, proper adjustment.
Set the blade exactly parallel to the miter slots. Your owner's manual will describe how to do this. (It varies, depending on the type of saw you have, so I won't attempt to describe it. What works for my saw may not for yours.) Measuring "exactly parallel" is a *lot* easier with the TS-Aligner or TS-Aligner Jr (http://www.ts-aligner.com ). [I have no connection with the manufacturer, except as a *very* satisfied customer]
Then set the fence exactly parallel to the blade, or angled *very* slightly away from the blade toward the rear.

You can get a face shield at Lowe's for fifteen or twenty bucks. IMO, it's well worth it. And don't stand directly in line with the blade.
Final recommendation: get a book or two on table saw use. I recommend both "The Table Saw Book" by Kelly Mehler, and "Table Saw Magic" by Jim Tolpin. They may be available at your local library.
-- Regards, Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)
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Don't kid yourself about how fast your reflexes are ... they don't even signify in this situation, as your bruises amply prove.
How about the splitter? Were you using one?
One of the benefits of the wrec is that people can learn from other's mistakes. Your answer to this question may help someone else avoid injury in the same manner.
--
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Last update: 8/16/03
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sometimes when your ripping the stress in the wood can close the saw kerf, that is why I use a splitter. I was crosscutting plywood when it bound up and chucked it at me, took a second to realize what happened when I got off the floor, I now have 12 inch long scar on my stomach and you can count the layers of plywood in the scar, oh yea that's why I use a splitter now.....Tony

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On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 10:36:42 -0400, "G.E.R.R.Y."

1. Make sure the blade is perpendicular to the table.
2. Make sure the front of the blade is the same distance from the miter slot as the back of the blade. There's specific instructions on how to measure all this. Make sure you read your manual.
3. Make sure your blade is raised just high enough to cut thru the material you're working on. An extra 1/2" or so should be plenty.
4. Make sure your blade is clean...and sharp. Learn how to sharpen it...or have it done professionally occasionally.
5. Consider getting a saw of low horsepower...or adjusting your present saw...so that the blade will bind instead of throwing out the material...until you get more experience. This can't be done with every saw, however.
6. Don't stand behind the saw when you cut.
7. Make sure the back of the fence is further from the blade than the front of the blade...to help prevent binding.

The fence is actually a big T-square, Gerry. If yer gonna make the front part able to ride horizontally along the track...and you want to make the fence tapered to smaller at the far end...then the piece yer CUTTIN' would be tapered, too...since yer running it along the fence...the vertical piece. And a tapered cut is not what you normally want, of course.
I didn't use x-axis and y-axis...but I think you'll get the picture.

Don't be nonchalant when you run a piece thru, Gerry. Use your strength to hold it down on the table. If you can't hold it down easily, use a wide push block...maybe made from a piece of 2x4. You can make one that you can actually run over the blade along with the piece yer cuttin'...as long as you have your blade height adjusted, of course.
And don't FORCE the wood thru. Give the saw blade a chance to cut.
Good luck...and be careful!
Oh...as most folks mentioned...get some books...or do some reading on the Internet.
Have a nice week...
Trent
Cat...the OTHER white meat!
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