Need lacquer coating on gun stock parts in TX. Where to go?

[Strike Penguin]

I need some guidance. I'm working on a historical firearm project and I have some stock pieces that I need finished. The pieces are a buttstock (about

12" long) and a pistol grip, in French Walnut, with a couple of coats of Tried & True BLO already applied. What I need is for these two pieces to be given a coat of yellowish nitrocellulose lacquer. I've read here that lacquer yellows as it ages, but I have a couple of original pieces to serve as a guide, and it looks to me like the original lacquer was yellowish-orange in color. Here are pictures of those pieces, dated from the late 50's:

Notice the color of the chipped coating on the metal:

where the coating has worn off, showing the old French Walnut underneath:

view of the wear spots, hopefully gives some idea of the coating's thickness & texture:

spot up front:

buttstock and grip (which I've had custom-made) need a coat to match the original parts. I'd do this myself with some Deft, but Deft is clear and it's not chemically accurate for what I'm doing, and besides, my living situation doesn't afford me the space or environmental latitude to do any toxic spraying. I'd rather have this done by a professional with the right equipment. Can anybody suggest someplace I can go to have this done? I was thinking there might be makers of musical instruments or furniture who'd be willing to give my stock parts a coating of real nitrocellulose lacquer. I'm in the DFW area of Texas (a bit closer to the FW than the D).

Thanks in advance for any help!

[Leon]

If I had to guess this is military and the finish has probably been reapplied at least a time or two through out the years as witnessed by the first picture showing the varnish that got on the metal.

The finish you are wanting to reproduce very well may not be the original.

[Mike Marlow]

That really looks like an aged urethane or lacquer to me, as opposed to a tinted one. To match it you'd probably just want to tint your clear.

You're on the right track by thinking of musical instrument manufacturers and/or repair facilities for nitro. There must be a good luthier in the DFW area that would happily shoot this for you. Let your fingers do the walking.

The gun looks to me like it's been cleared more than just the original finish. There is an awful lot of shine to that finish which is not very common in older guns. As well, there appears to be an awful lot of dust nib in the finish which leads me to believe it's a re-finish job. The way that the finish is totally chipped off of the forestock also makes it look like someone refinished this stock in the past. Are you sure this is an original finish? What kind of gun is it?

[Tom Banes]

I suspect that the finish you're trying to match is well-aged BLO. The stock appears to be a military piece, possibly an M1, from the photos. Most 1950s era military weapons had a BLO finish and it would have gotten really yellow by now (my WWII issue certainly M1 is). I do not believe the US military used a lacquer finish on any of its wood stocked weapons - lacquer won't hold up to the kind of abuse a military weapon must endure. I suspect that's true of most other countries a swell.

To match, I'd suggest trying some oil based dye added to BLO. General Finishes sells a small sampler kit that I think is available at Rockler.Com. Hope you kept some scraps to try for a match.

Regards.

Tom

Top posted for convenience

[Oughtsix]

DON'T DO IT!!!!!

When I first started collecting military weapons 20 years ago I enjoyed refinishing them myself with BLO. I still have my first M1 carbine I refinished and it turned out beautifullly. IT IS WORTHLESS!!!! Neither me nor my friends that are collectors have much interest in refinished weapons. The scaring you showed in the pictures is part of the firearm and part of it's history. Respect it for what it is "A weapon that has been lugged around by some infantry man somewhere". If he carved his initials in it 50 years ago, all the better.

But that is just my opinion!

[Strike Penguin]

Tom,

The rifle is a clone of a mid-50's Belgian Army FN FAL. It's a clone, so it's a mish-mash of foreign and domestic parts, but the handguards are original. Fabrique Nationale's wood finish for their semi-auto guns was a yellowish lacquer, probably over a dip coat of BLO; I have experience with Garand stock finishes, and I've handled a mint-condition FN 49 (cousin to the FAL) which has a beautiful yellow-gold finish that's definitely not oil-only.

To give some background, the wood parts FN made for other country's FAL contracts (like Germany) also have the same gloss coating which shows its nature at the wear spots. By comparison, the repro furniture I had custom-made has had BLO ONLY applied, and they look nothing like the handguards. I've also worked with a batch of Argentine FAL stocks. The Argentines, like most early FAL buyers, took some originals and then got a license to build their own FALs later, and out of the batch I worked with, about half were BLO finished and half were shiny lacquered. My guess is that they found the lacquer too delicate and went to BLO on their own pieces.

If these handguards are oil finish, it's like no oil finish I've ever seen; tough, glossy, yellow in color, chipped and worn on the surface, and not penetrated into the wood.

I do live a short drive from an actual Rockler's store... Man, it's hard to not spend money in there.

[Strike Penguin]

Oughtsix (good 'nick, by the way)

Not to worry. I'm not refinishing original parts, I'm looking for somebody to imitate the original finish on some custom wood I've had made up to go WITH the originals.

Funny you mention carved initials. Somebody scratched the word "VICTORIA" onto these handguards. Given the pedigree of the parts, and knowing who the manufacture was supplying at the time, it's possible the parts were used on a rifle in Rhodesia.

[Strike Penguin]

Ordinarily I'd be inclined to agree, but the inner surfaces have the same finish, and all the manufacturer's inspection marks and date stamps look fine. A design feature of the rifle is that there is an exhaust gas bleed inside the handguards, which leaves crud in the wood after use. There's no sign of anybody ever cleaning the wood in there. If these were refinished, it was the most thorough refinish job ever, getting into all the nooks and crannies around the reinforcing hardware, rivets, etc. inside the front handguards, while not covering the stains. The finish is also consistent with everything that's known about what FN produced at the time.

[Strike Penguin]

That's what I was thinking. Searching for "urethane" just gives me floor finish information, does anybody know the history of its use? I ask because this rifle replicates a mid-50s example, during a time when there was a lot of new technology in paint and coatings appearing. For example, rifles from this manufacturer made just a couple of years later used epoxy-based paints, while my rifle's paint finish has to be baked alkyd enamel to be historically correct. Same goes for wood coatings; what had me thinking "nitrocellulose lacquer" was its common use at the time, and the way it allegedly yellows as it ages.

I was hoping somebody could make a recommendation! This sounds silly, but I wanted to avoid offending somebody who might not like firearms. Musical instruments and rifles serve two very different practical purposes and I've already heard of a group in this area called "Drums Not Guns". I'm originally from the Northeast, too, which makes me wary of any reactions I might get, asking for a guitar maker to lend his skills to beautifying my rifle! Besides which, what I'm asking for might be something unusual for an instrument maker to do. I was curious if there was somebody who was known to be both a woodworker and firearms enthusiast.

I did just find this website, I think it's a start:

The gun looks to me like it's been cleared more than just the original

The gun itself is a clone of an FN FAL, so it's not original as a whole. Most of the parts are new or surplus from various sources, but the handguards in the picture were made by Fabrique Nationale and date to 1957. I'd be surprised if it wasn't original, because the finish on these pieces is consistent with original finish on other pieces that FN made at the time. I've both handled such original pieces personally, and seen pictures of similar original parts.

[Andy Dingley]

Then ask a historian what _was_ used, don't ask woodworkers what they'd use instead.

Most military firearms were given an oil finish, not any sort of lacquer. Sporting arms were more usually given a film-forming oil finish, sometimes a varnish. The reason is maintenance - military arms have _terrible_ finishes that require a lot of upkeep work to keep them in order. This occupies bored soldiers in barracks and keeps them out of trouble (similarly the need to polish boots and press underwear). The finishes are also fairly effective in service, or for short periods, so long as they get their maintenance when needed. Owners of sporting arms want minimum effort though and won't accept this.

[Strike Penguin]

I didn't. I asked where I could go to get the correct finish applied.

[Tom B]

Penguin:

Understood, FN probably did things a bit differently. The Candian FN I used years ago was certainly not what the USA issued me in the 60's.

That being said, if you need someone to spray a few pieces with tinted lacquers to try for a match, drop me a line at

X-L-E-A-N-O-N-E at airmail dot net

Decode the above by dropping dashes, etc.

I'm in Plano and have finished a bunch of stocks for myself. I'm not in the business, but happy to try to help. Got an HVLP and bunches of tints, so maybe it can be done.

Regards.

Tom

[Strike Penguin]

Tom,

I appreciate the offer - I might just take you up on that, if I don't have any luck with luthiers. I've some nice French Walnut pieces I can trade if you like.