Mortise and Tenon Machine?

Page 1 of 2  

I'm looking for a mid to high end mortise and tenon machine, not a template, not a jig, but an x,y, or x,y,z single or multirouter machine
with multi-lever action. I think Jet used to have one, but I can't find
it on their site. The only other one I found was at http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com /, but it's $2700 and I was looking
for something in the $1000 range. Can anyone suggest either a brand, supplier, or other info? Thanks.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Both Powermatic and General make a mortising machine an with integrated cross-slide vise at the $1K price point.
http://www.tools-plus.com/g-i75-075m1.html
http://www.woodworker.com/Powermatic_719.htm

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

This is a quality tool in the price range but its not the Multi-Router. http://www.leighjigs.com/fmt.php
Dave
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

This looks like a comprehensive device, but MAN that's a lot of money for a passive device, isn't it?.... Am I missing something?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

Nope. It was more expensive when if first came out. I suspect it will continue to drop.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Maybe they are try to recoup their R&D in the first 100 pieces?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Robatoy wrote:

I think we've become so used to cheap mass-produced stuff from China that when we're presented with a limited run item made in the USA we get sticker shock. (Assuming it IS made in the USA by workers earning a fine wage and health benefits and paid coffee breaks and all waste products disposed of properly and all safety equipment known to man bolted and strapped on and everyone paying a healthy share of taxes all the way around. <whew>)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I think we have become used to seeing what many items are really worth in a world market. I think the bubble has burst for the labor unions.
(Assuming it IS made in the USA by workers earning

IIRC made in Canada.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Leon wrote:

Oy vey.... even worse I'd suspect ;-)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Robatoy (in snipped-for-privacy@nr-tor01.bellnexxia.net) said:
|
|| wrote: ||| |||| This is a quality tool in the price range but its not the |||| Multi-Router. http://www.leighjigs.com/fmt.php ||| ||| This looks like a comprehensive device, but MAN that's a lot of ||| money for a passive device, isn't it?.... ||| Am I missing something? || || Nope. It was more expensive when if first came out. I suspect it || will continue to drop. | | Maybe they are try to recoup their R&D in the first 100 pieces?
I suspect they just felt secure in their niche. It was when I added up the prices on this general type of equipment that I decided to apply the crowbar for my ShopBot. BTW, I noticed on the SB forum (www.talkshopbot.com) that back in October someone had advertized their 48x96 machine for $4K, more than what the OP is looking to spend, but still but a _lot_ more "bang for the buck".
Beside for mortise and tenon work that none of the machines mentioned could come near, it allows doing stuff like what I posted earlier today on ABPW under "MDF Scrap" - and makes me wish I hadn't wasted money on router jigs, fixtures, and accessories.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The Morris Dovey entity posted thusly:

But you can sure by a lot of jigs, fixtures and accessories (not to mention routers and tables), for what you'd have to spend on a ShopBot.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Oleg Lego (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
| The Morris Dovey entity posted thusly: | || Beside for mortise and tenon work that none of the machines || mentioned could come near, it allows doing stuff like what I || posted earlier today on ABPW under "MDF Scrap" - and makes me wish || I hadn't wasted money on router jigs, fixtures, and accessories. | | But you can sure by a lot of jigs, fixtures and accessories (not to | mention routers and tables), for what you'd have to spend on a | ShopBot.
Starting out, I was afraid to consider used equipment and wasn't aware that there were some really good buys to be had. Had I known how to look for used equipment, I'd have paid far less (perhaps a fifth or a fourth as much) for a good used machine.
If I'd known what I've learned _since_ buying my machine, I'd almost certainly have paid to have a table and gantries welded up and then built the rest myself. Three-axis controller cards and stepper motors are available off-the-shelf.
I've been thinking seriously about CNC conversions for mini-mill (HF) and mini-lathe (Griz) for making small metal parts for the woodshop. Either can be built using all new components for under $2K. I have a programming background and was able to write the driver software for a $200 controller card in about an hour. It's /not/ rocket surgery!
There was a recent thread with a Dutch OP who built a CNC router and I'll guess that machine put him out of pocket less than $1K, and could be modified (only slightly) to become a wonderfully flexible CNC joinery machine capable of out-performing any/all of the off-the-shelf passive joinery machines - and produce joints impossible/impractical with templates.
Best of all, there's a _lot_ of free help available. The ShopBot and CNCZone forums (both of which welcome visitors) have been of considerable help to me.
Now you know more than I did when I started. :-)
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Morris Dovey said:

What program(s) do you use to generate the plot files? Do they produce Gerber output, or something else?
I have considered this very thing, not only for woodworking, but for drilling numerous tiny, precision holes in printed circuit boards.
Started building a small X/Y/Z drill plotter back in 92, but never finished it due to various moves around the country. Finished most of the software, but never completed the hardware. It read Gerber files. The cost of big stepper motors and such relegated it to the back burner - I was going to salvage the parts from old equipment, but never found a good set of adequate matching motors.

I noticed that as well. Looked over some of his pages, and meant to reply to him, but life got in the way...
FWIW,
Greg G.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Greg G. (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
| Morris Dovey said: | || I've been thinking seriously about CNC conversions for mini-mill || (HF) and mini-lathe (Griz) for making small metal parts for the || woodshop. Either can be built using all new components for under || $2K. I have a programming background and was able to write the || driver software for a $200 controller card in about an hour. It's || /not/ rocket surgery! | | What program(s) do you use to generate the plot files? | Do they produce Gerber output, or something else?
With the ShopBot, I have two approaches. The first is fairly conventional: I make drawings in DesignCAD and export them as DXF files. If the drawing consists of toolpaths, I can hand the DXF directly to the SB cutting program. If the drawing consists of edges (a more usual type of drawing) I use a program called PartWizard (provided by ShopBot with the machine) that interactively converts drawing to part program, which is then fed to the cutting program.
The second approach isn't so conventional. With this approach, I write C programs that output a file of part program commands. This lets me take advantage of all the capabilities of a general-purpose programming language to do things not readily done within the limited capabilities of normal part programs.
I've also hacked my cutting application to allow me to invoke and pass command line parameters to an external program from within an executing part program. This allows me to (interactively) generate and execute part program code "on the fly".
The second approach "unhooks" me from the machine vendor, since I can as easily emit g-code as the proprietary ShopBot codes.
I think more than 99.99% of executed commands are 'move' commands, so it doesn't appear any more difficult to call a controller driver with parameters for a tool move than to write a tool movement command with those same parameters to a text file...
| I have considered this very thing, not only for woodworking, but for | drilling numerous tiny, precision holes in printed circuit boards.
And if you add motor speed control and replace drill bit with a router bit or end mill...
| Started building a small X/Y/Z drill plotter back in 92, but never | finished it due to various moves around the country. Finished most | of the software, but never completed the hardware. It read Gerber | files. The cost of big stepper motors and such relegated it to the | back burner - I was going to salvage the parts from old equipment, | but never found a good set of adequate matching motors.
Important things have happened since then - E-Bay, Google,... :-)
|| There was a recent thread with a Dutch OP who built a CNC router || and | | I noticed that as well. Looked over some of his pages, and meant to | reply to him, but life got in the way...
Well, I think I'd have done it differently (which just goes to show that everybody's an art critic) but the important part is that _he_ got the job done simply and inexpensively - and he was willing to share with the rest of the world. Once the basics are in place, one can always make refinements. I think he merits at least an "attaboy!"
Build your machine!
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The Morris Dovey entity posted thusly:

Hmm... sounds interesting. My situation, being a hobbyist only sort of dictates how much I can spend without the profit justification.

I'm a programmer as well, and do mostly assembler on micros, VB and some C/C++ on PCs (Windows, usually, but prefer Linux). I don't know if I have enough confidence in my programming abilities to buy the hardware 'on spec' and to write the software later.

Was that on the ShopBot or CNCZone forums?

$1K sounds like my kind of price. For a few years, I made vinyl signs, and kept looking at my vinyl cutter, thinking "I could make a CNC router", but never did try. I even bought a video from a fellow who had made a CNC table using (of all things), alternators as stepper motors. Misplaced both the video and his name/email address years ago, though.

I'll look for the forums.

I do, and thank you for the knowledge.
Larry
--
There are 10 kinds of people --
those who understand binary, and those who don't.
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Oleg Lego (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
| The Morris Dovey entity posted thusly: | || Oleg Lego (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said: ||| ||| But you can sure by a lot of jigs, fixtures and accessories (not ||| to mention routers and tables), for what you'd have to spend on a ||| ShopBot. | || Starting out, I was afraid to consider used equipment and wasn't || aware that there were some really good buys to be had. Had I known || how to look for used equipment, I'd have paid far less (perhaps a || fifth or a fourth as much) for a good used machine. | | Hmm... sounds interesting. My situation, being a hobbyist only sort | of dictates how much I can spend without the profit justification. | || If I'd known what I've learned _since_ buying my machine, I'd || almost certainly have paid to have a table and gantries welded up || and then built the rest myself. Three-axis controller cards and || stepper motors are available off-the-shelf. | || I've been thinking seriously about CNC conversions for mini-mill || (HF) and mini-lathe (Griz) for making small metal parts for the || woodshop. Either can be built using all new components for under || $2K. I have a programming background and was able to write the || driver software for a $200 controller card in about an hour. It's || /not/ rocket surgery!
There are pix of both machines at Steele's website (link below). | | I'm a programmer as well, and do mostly assembler on micros, VB and | some C/C++ on PCs (Windows, usually, but prefer Linux). I don't know | if I have enough confidence in my programming abilities to buy the | hardware 'on spec' and to write the software later.
Ok, then take my approach - download the controller interface spec and write the software before you commit the funds. I found hardware conversion kits at http://www.stirlingsteele.com /, downloaded the I/F specs and wrote a driver skeleton and some simplistic software unit test code to see how difficult it might be - and it wasn't! I wrote the code on a Linux system using nedit and gcc; but it works equally well under MSDOS using Borland TurboC 3.0 (a blatent plug for writing ISO/IEC-9899 compliant C code). Go ahead and give it a shot - and e-mail me if you get stuck. I could send you the code now; but then you'd lose the brag of having done it all yourself. :-)
|| There was a recent thread with a Dutch OP who built a CNC router || and | | Was that on the ShopBot or CNCZone forums?
It was HERE! :-)
The gentleman's name is Martin de Roode and his website is at http://engraving.majosoft.com/html/wooden_hobby_cnc_engraving_mac.HTM
|| I'll guess that machine put him out of pocket less than $1K, and || could be modified (only slightly) to become a wonderfully flexible || CNC joinery machine capable of out-performing any/all of the || off-the-shelf passive joinery machines - and produce joints || impossible/impractical with templates. | | $1K sounds like my kind of price. For a few years, I made vinyl | signs, and kept looking at my vinyl cutter, thinking "I could make | a CNC router", but never did try. I even bought a video from a | fellow who had made a CNC table using (of all things), alternators | as stepper motors. Misplaced both the video and his name/email | address years ago, though.
My kind of person! Martin used drawer slides as linear bearings - something that'd never have occurred to me, although it seemed obvious after seeing his machine. Alternators - hmmm...
|| Best of all, there's a _lot_ of free help available. The ShopBot || and CNCZone forums (both of which welcome visitors) have been of || considerable help to me. | | I'll look for the forums.
http://www.talkshopbot.com http://www.cnczone.com
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The Morris Dovey entity posted thusly:

Sounds like a plan.

Found it. Actually, as soon as you mentioned the drawer slides, I realized I had independently found Martin's site a few weeks ago, and filed it under "stuff to look at".

That's quite a nice machine.

Yes, I wish I could remember the fellow's name. He did some mods to the alternators, if I remember correctly, though it seemed like it was minimal.

Thanks for the pointers. I'll definitely be looking at them.
Larry
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Oleg Lego (in snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com) said:
| Yes, I wish I could remember the fellow's name. He did some mods to
I don't know if it's the same person, but there's some how-to info at http://www.technosmith.com/TsShop/AbFilt/062_StepperMotorFromAlternato r.htm.
-- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The Morris Dovey entity posted thusly:

That's not him, but it's probably a similar mod. I took a look around on Google, and I'm pretty sure the fellow I mentioned was John Rees (found references to John Reese as well). Don Lancaster had a 'flutterwumper' article or two that mentioned him and gave a hint or two of the mods necessary.
John's video was a complete description of a sign-making system, in an hour-long video. I don't know if the accuracy would be good enough. Cutting 2-4ft. high styrofoam letters allows for a lot of inaccuracy.
I think I know where my video might be. I'll see if I can get in touch with the borrower. :-)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
The Morris Dovey entity posted thusly:

Aha! Have a look at http://www.tinaja.com/glib/hackar2.pdf for more info. The article starts on page 116 (Acrobat page, or 44.2 article page).
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.