Jointer planes

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Hey all
Looking to into jointing a board with a hand plane and trying to select the appropriate type planes.
I can understand that the long the plane the less likely the plane is to "follow the curve" but given that I can get a #6 at 18", a #7 at 22" and a #8 at 24" is there significance in flatness or speed of work between the three. Given that the different planes are made, there must be a reason why.......
Cheers Eric (a normite in neander territory)
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Sam the Cat asks:

Because people insist on being people.
Charlie Self "Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy." Ernest Benn
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Sam the Cat wrote:

Good question but you've been distracted by the two differnt places of use for the planes, face and side. Jointing is done to the side of the board with a shooting board. This allows the plane, whatever it is, to follow a registerd line and shave the boards where needed to make them straight of mate to each other. For this you can use alomost any plane, although a #5 or greater is easier unless you own a shooting/chuting plane. Flattening the face of the board is where the length begins to matter. In theory, a longer plane won't follow the ups and downs of the board but will span them instead. For this a #6 or better will be necessary if it's a long board. The plane needs to be of decent size compared to the board, but if the board is short, say under 3', even a #5 will work adequately. Remeber either buy old planes or fairly expensive ones, India and China make paperweights, not planes, newer Stanleys aren't as good as old ones and Buck or Great Neck aren't worth the effort to fettle, IMHO. I hope that helps, Dave in Fairfax
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May I interupt? I seem to have taken up an interest in Anant planes from India and I wonder about your opinion of them as paperweights... I mean I know I can agree about China planes without touching one and I have never shaven a stroke. Have you used the India made Anant planes? Because I would really like to know about their quality, even if you know of an online review I'd like read it. Highland Hardware sells them and has a high opinion of them. http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com / http://www.anant-tools.com/index2.php
Alex (not-yet-beginner, or, beginner-not)
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AArDvarK wrote:

I can only give you my impressions, which is why I put in the IMHO. I prefer to make my decisions based on my own experience, whenever possible. Anants were cheap enough that I could talk myself into buying them to try against my others without crying too much if they turned out to be junk. I've owned and discarded a #4, #5, #6 and #78. I found them to be better than the Chinese, but to have poor fit and finish. Don't even talk to me about the blades. I found the amount of fettling necessary to make them square and flat to outrageous. Compared to a Veritas or LN they were much cheaper, in every sense. Compared to an old Stanley they cost about the same and are now where near the quality. Just my opinion, but I bought them before I made it. I was thinking at the time that a lot of medical instruments are made in Pakistan and that Kukris are good knives, so that they might have a decent metal industry in that part of the world. They may still have one. I don't think that Anant shows it. I don't worry when I see Pakistan on the side of a medical instrument at work, but I'll never see Anant on my plane shelves again.
That may have come across a bit strong on rereading it, but itreally pushed a button. I'm honestly not trying to pick a fight, I just have a very low opinion of the planes. Dave Leader
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Shit that is fair enough! I'm only "Mr. Wannaknow" you know... highland has such a hype on them probably just for sales. But they may have pushed the issue and these days Anant may be doing it right, who knows, I may try just one. I think the LN's are too much money so what is your feeling about Veritas planes? I noticed the LN scraper 112 is $210.00 but the Veritas is $129.xx...
Alex
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AArDvarK wrote:

Sorry if that seemed defensive, planes take on an almst religious signifigance here. Get one tuned just right and you'll see why. Highland has a good reputation and it's been quite a while since I tried the Anants, so it's possible that they cleaned up their act. Once upon a time, "Made in Japan" was a curse. I've never heard anything bad about the Veritas planes, indeed they seem to be the most inovative planes around. Come to think of it, I heard that there was a knuckle space issue on one if you had huge hands, but that's just hearsay, and Robin may have addressed that issue, if it was a real problem. Since he's undoubltedly listening in I'd expect to hear from him shortly on this. If you aren't built on Economy of Scale, it may be moot anyway. LNs are gorgeous, but the Veritas planes are spiffy too. Both seem to run right out of the box. The old Stanleys are frequently in a "hone and go" condition due to the previous owner. Many will need cleaning, check under "electrolysis" in the archives. It's really a question of taste and economics. If you don't own ANY planes, go to the local flea market or antiques shop after reading www.supertool.com thoroughly and buy a god looking #5. Learn about planes on it, should cost about $20. You'll learn about sharpening, maybe fettling - check Jeff Gorman's site. It's a cheap, instructive lesson, and you'll end up with a good user. A peice of birch ply will make you a shooting board and there's your jointer right there. I hope this helps some, if you have further questions, after doing the reading, feel free to write off-line. As I said, this has been talked to death, several times and that might be nicer than boring everybody to tears, again.
Dave in Fairfax
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No problem with knuckles on the smoother/jack. They're the ones on my shelf which DO have enough space for me. My LN low angle, and perhaps the Veritas take a fingering diagram.
I, too, have had experience with donated Anants. I don't know how much the outfit wrote off on the donation, but if it was more than a buck and a quarter each, the IRS oughta lock 'em up. Hell, even the irons chip off when planing knots, and as to the cast in the body....

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When I first saw the totes on the Veritas I was not impressed. They looked too clunky. Howver, when I started to use them I realized that they are the most comfortable of all the planes I own. On the models I have tried, it looks like they have actually extended the totes a bit compared to the traditional Stanleys, and even on the low-angle, there is a bit of extra room.

I seem to recall one wrecker (was it you, Lar?) saying that they managed to get an Anant to perform reasonably well by subbing a Hock and doing quite a bit of tweaking. Other than that, I haven't heard of anyone who has had good luck with them.
For my money, there's no question about it. I'm not going to shell out the bucks for a new Stanley, Anant or any other marginal plane when there are good old Stanleys, Veritas and L-N's available.
Chuck Vance Just say (tmPL) IMHO, there's no way you should have to put as much effort into tuning a new plane as you do one that was built sixty years ago.
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On 7 Jul 2004 05:11:27 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@txstate.edu (Conan The Librarian) calmly ranted:

I remember thinking the same thing from the pictures but will have to find someone locally with a Veritas plane so I can try it out.

I have only one Hock iron and that came in the $10 #60-1/2 I picked up from another Wrecker. The message you might remember was way back when I had just learned ScarySharp(tm)ing and had actually been able to put an edge on a cheaparse iron from a made-in-India plane. What I didn't disclose: it lasted only a few strokes before reverting to its nasty, tear-outy nature. I keep it for use on sticky doors and gritty, painted stuff where I don't want to lose a decent iron.

Agreed! And I'll probably go with a Veritas vs. a L-N due to owning short crowbars and a proper Scottish wallet. (It screams when you open it.)

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Larry Jaques wrote:

You really should. I was reading on woodcentral that some folks can't even bring themselves to use the Veritas planes because they think the totes are so ugly. For me it's a no-brainer if I'd prefer to have a lovely, semi-comfortable tote vs. an ugly tote that fits like a glove.
But then I *use* my planes. :-)

Sounds like my newish Stanley block plane. I foolishly bought it when I was starting out, and I keep it around just for working on ply or other stuff where I don't want to risk messing up a real plane.

You've certainly made that clear, Mr. Squeaky Britches. :-)
Knowing what I know now, if I were starting from scratch buying planes, I'd go almost exclusively with Veritas. I'd probably still have an old Stanley jointer and fore, but for specialty planes, I don't think you can get better bang for the buck than the Veritas.
Chuck Vance
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On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 08:12:08 -0500, Conan the Librarian

Yes, comfort and control are where it's at.

I put several handfuls of redwood shavings from the mantle I redid Monday, so there! :) I'll degloss and wax tomorrow, then install on Saturday after the "known to the Republik of Kalifornia to be harmful" fumes have outgassed from that nasty J&J paste wax.

Of that I have no doubt.

I'm perfectly happy with the ugly^H^H^H^Hfull-of-character old Stanleys. Maybe one of the new Veritas medium shoulder planes will find its way here shortly after my birfday next month... That or fix the li'l 1/2" Knight shoulder plane. It's one of his earliest models and the epoxy didn't hold the brass sole on as well as he'd hoped. Some jarrah ought to fix that.
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<clip>

process in Sacramento come immediately to mind. ;-)
<clip>

The Veritas Medium Shoulder plane is one sweet tool, Larry. Does the short crowbar work on someone else's wallet? ;-)
Patriarch, who eyes the southern Oregon coast as a potential refuge, when the time comes...
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On Thu, 08 Jul 2004 23:29:13 GMT, patriarch

Not yet, but I'm working on it.

"It ain't far off." he sighed.
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Don't know if this still applies to India, but a few years ago I saw a documentary on India and in one shot a mechanic was re-sizing a piston to fit a bore. Held in his feet. With a file.
Sounds like the same guys are making the Anant planes.
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wrote:

not so fast there...
the chinese have been doing woodworking prolly longer than anybody else. their traditional wood body pull planes are right up there for quality and usability. chinese made-for-export-copy-of-stanley are what you'd expect, though...

the last time I had one in my hands was a few years ago, so they may have improved. then, what I saw was warped, poorly finished castings, parts that only sorta approximated fitting together, chrome plate peeling off, too thin cutters.... real crap.

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snipped-for-privacy@thanks.com wrote:

You're right about the Chinese woodies, I'd assumed that we were talking metal bodies since the OP asked about Anants. You're right though, the chines and japanese woodies are a lot of fun and once you get used to them are very easy to use. Your impressions of the Anants was what I remembered as well as a chip breaker made of tinfoil. Fair paper weights.
Dave in Fairfax
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says...

for a short edge, yes. But for a long edge, unless you have the worlds largest shooting board, the reasons you gave for using a jointer on the face of the board also apply to the edge.
And to the OP, I like a #8 because of the greater mass. Once you get it going, it seems to bog down less than the lighter planes. But it's all subjective - as Charlie said, people will be people.
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Where ARE those Iraqi WMDs?

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Larry Blanchard wrote:

If you look again, you'll see that I said to use some birch ply, that gives you at least a 5' length. A couple posts back, on this subject, I said that I live in a townhouse and don't have room for things like a jointer, but that a shooting board takes up no space stacked against a wall. If you have a short board then a longer plane will be useful, but if you a decent length board most any plane will work adequately. Once it's started the plane will only tkae the board down as farr as the shooting board has been recessed. You'll need to advance the edge of the board you're working on if more needs to be taken off.
I prefer a #7 or #8 as well, but I don't know That the OP is willing to push that much iron.
Dave in Fairfax
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says...

But since I've never used a shooting board, I have a question. You take your plywood and clamp it to the board to be edged, back just far enough to take off all the irregularities.
Now you start planing. Your last sentence is what I question. Since most planes have a blade that goes very near the edge, how do you keep it from cutting into the plywood? I could see it if the part that rode on the plywood had no blade in it, but I don't see how that could be the case.
BTW, I use my jointer plane mostly for edge joining two boards and for that I just clamp them together.
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