I Need advice on tool purchases

Page 3 of 4  

: IIRC FWW had an article with plans on building that jig and I built one : myself. I can probably did up the plans in .pdf if you would like a copy.
Thanks, but I'm mostly just curious and saving up ideas for later. I don't have an immediate need. I'm thinking that I'll buy a planer before a jointer, when I have an immediate need.
: I was able to flatten rough cut 4/4 oak 8-13" wide and 8' long with the jig : and my stationary planer. That would be pretty tough to do with most any : jointer unless you start getting into the 12" and larger jointers.
: Keep in mind that the boards need to pretty straight and flat to be able to : joint a board that wide and long and have at leas 3/4 left when you are : done. If the board have much bow or warp you would be better off ripping : with a BS and or shortening the board to begin with to minimize the bow or : warp.
Great info - thanks!
--- Chip
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Chip Buchholtz wrote:

Actually you can flatten a face with a planer, you just need to support the stock on a sled that is stiff enough to keep it from flexing and that doesn't let it flatten out.
And they do make planers that can also joint--the trouble is that they need to have beds as long as any other jointer in order to do it effectively, and to do it full width they need to have beds like jointers of that width and that means a big, heavy, expensive tool.
There's more than one solution to any problem, but the purpose-made tool is usually the most convenient.
--
--
--John
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Andy H" wrote:

about
<snip>
Don't let that money burn a hole in your pocket.
Buy as the need arises.
1) Invest in a good set of 10" saw blades(24T rip, 50T combo, & 80T finish)
2) Build jigs. Buy a couple of sheets of 9 ply(1/2") & 13 ply(3/4"), then build some sleds, if you don't have them.
3) An 8" Dado set. It gets more use than you imagine.
4) A bench top planer. (there are work arounds for a jointer, but not a planer).
5) A good ROS, I have a Bosch 3727 and wouldn't leave home without it.
6) A Fein Multimaster. The damn thing is VERY addictive.
7) A 3 HP router suitable for permanent table mounting.
8) Clamps, clamps, clamps.
Of all the things above, having material on hand to build a quick jig will save your rear end more times than everything else above, IMHO.
Have fun.
Lew
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Lew Hodgett wrote: Snip

On the list

On the "later" list I have one, not too thrilled with it though

On the list (well a 2-1/4 HP anyway)

I have a couple, will buy as needed.

That is pretty good advice! There have been many times when I didnt build something because I didnt have the materials on hand to make a jig.

Thanks so much for everyone's feedback!
--
:: Clever Sig here ::

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

*snip*
I've had good luck with HF C clamps. Might as well save some money and buy several there.

Puckdropper
--
Wise is the man who attempts to answer his question before asking it.

To email me directly, send a message to puckdropper (at) fastmail.fm
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I am not offering any advice here, but merely asking a kind of follow-up question. Several people have mentioned the planer and while not necessarily recommending one they have talked about it usefulness. But it seems to me that since Andy has mentioned things like cabinet work, furniture, and blanket chests that one of those drum sanders could prove to be very useful. I have not built large pieces like that, but I have built smaller projects that made me think how sweet one of those things could be. I also think that if I had a lot of good wood that needed to "planed" that a drum sander would be preferred to a planer. especially if the wood had some sort of figure that may chip out during planing.
The two negatives that I see to this are that the sanders are a tad pricey and dust collection would not be an option. It is also more money than Andy said he had to spend, but I'm sure his arm could be twisted enough to stretch the old budget a little. :-)
Wayne
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Good observation however for general planing the drum sander is going to be way expensive as the sand paper will not last as long as the knives will stay sharp. The sander will be very slow by comparison and many many passes are necessary to remove typical amounts of wood and the passes are about half the speed when going fast, as a planer goes on slow. That said, a drum sander is a great tool to use after the planer for reasons you have mentioned about tear out and if you make a lot of your own veneer. As you pointed out, the drum sanders are pricey but about the same price as a similar sized planer. My 22/44 sander was about the same price as my 15 stationary Delta planer. Unless I was working strictly with small stock for small projects I would not consider a drum sander over a planer.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Hi Andy,
If you buy your wood finished 2 sides and straight lined you will probably not need a planer or jointer to soon. As soon as need to edge glue boards you really need a jointer. As soon as you buy wood rough or need to thin a piece of wood down to less of a thickness you will likely need a planer. But if you are to give your cabinetry work any shape you will really need a band saw. Now there are work arounds to all of these pieces of equipment but they are all going to slow down your work. Larger pieces of equipment make the process go faster. You have to decide how much you need to speed up each process.
The other part of this is when you start doing this stuff for money the more of the money you keep for yourself the better off you will be. If you are paying the mill to do most of the work it may or may not be financially benefitting. Buying rough lumber and milling it yourself for the original cost of the equipment and the cost of blades and sharpening will likely pay you in the end. All of this is dependent of how much work you do. The cost of the equipment is amoritized over many jobs to justify the cost before it starts paying you. So weigh these thoughts in relationship to the work you expect you will do.
Roy
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually if you have a straight piece of plywood to use as a reference you can straighten rough cut boards on a TS plenty good enough for glueing the edges. I typically don't use the jointer at all as I find that for larger boards the jointer is overwhelmed. I can much more easily flatten a 10" wide and 8' long board with a jig and my stationary planer and much more quickly and easily straighten boards edges with the TS and my jig.
Snip

IMHO and my experience with probably 85% of my work being for pay I find that buying S4S is more expensive but not as expensive as my time. Basically I would rather pay the mill and extra $200 than spend the day millng rough cut or S2S myself. If I do the milling it costs me between $200 and $320 per day. If I am building something for myself I am more likely to do the milling myself.
I am not being contrary to prove you wrong, just adding another point of view. Your view is certainly valid.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
ROYNEU wrote:

<Snip>
Thanks Roy,     Maybe I forgot to mention that my dad has a stockpile of rough black walnut boards that has been drying for 50+ years. All I have to do is make one cool thing and I can get the rest. The planer might pay for it self just doing that alone.     I hope that the Forrest blade and a jig will help me joint these boards. Thats my plan. I placed the order last night for the Dewalt Planer, Forrest WWII, Triton Router, Kreg Pocket Rocket, and the PC 3 nailer kit. Im more than a little excited! Its gonna be an early Christmas for me!
BadAndy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

I'm sure the boards dried 48+ years ago. Walnut dust is known to be a hazard--buy a dust mask that has a good seal and a DC will be a wise health investment.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Phisherman wrote:

Well, I elected to forego the Dust Collector for the moment. I know Ill have a huge mess with the planer. I do the best I can with a shop vac. I have a couple paper masks, Ill probably get a respirator when I start doing the planing.
Ive always heard to on plane one side of a board and wait a couple days for it to acclimate before doing the other side.
Do I have to worry about this with wood this old?
thanks! Andy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Andy H wrote:

If you're taking about the same amount off each side and just enough to clean it up then I wouldn't worry about it. If you're taking a heavy cut on one side to reduce the thickness significantly then yeah, it's a good idea to let it rest for a bit after planing--the moisture content doesn't react instantly to humidity changes, so there will likely be a gradient across the thickness. Not much of one but enough to possibly cause a little bit of cupping.
--
--
--John
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
J. Clarke wrote:

Even on 50+ year old wood? I dont have a meter but its pretty dry. Its was cut about an inch thick I suppose. Now its closer to 3/4.
Andy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
"Andy H" wrote

Planer's don't usually make lots of "dust", they make more chip sized particles, so unless you have health/alergy problems already, the paper masks will most likely be fine, and a respirator overkill.
No shop vac I know of will keep up with most planers with a medium cut, but if you make light cuts you can certainly keep the cleanup time down with one.

Exact opposite, IME.

I always make at least one planing pass on both sides ... different strokes.
Fact: freshly planed wood really needs to be stored where the air circulation is the same on both sides, otherwise you will likely wake up to bowed wood the next morning.
While it is not necessary to "stack and sticker", some do so.
What I do ( and what most hardwood lumber yards do with "SxS" stock) is to store the freshly planed boards on end, as vertically upright as possible, with a support point (in the shop, a shelf edge, cabinet top etc.) about mid way or higher, so that air can circulate to both sides while its waiting to be used.
Then again, not all wood, even of the same species, will act the same way (mainly due to the way it was cut from the log, or from internal stresses when growing that are released when cut).
No matter the precautions, it's always a crap shoot, and why you should always order at least 20% more project stock than you need, or more.
YMMV ...
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/30/07
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Swingman wrote:

The opposite actually makes more sense to me too. If you are only revealing the "fresh" cells on one face then they could expand more than the non planed face making an expensive potato chip.
That sound right?
thanks for your input. Andy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Actually, and IME, the newly planed cells eventually contract due to drying/loss of moisture, causing that side of the board to become concave.
As far as the "plane one side only, let it rest before doing the other" theory:
_Most_ of the time a planer is used in conjunction with a jointer, one surface is "jointed" flat, and then the opposite surface is planed parallel to the jointed surface and for thickness ...
... therefore, the operations usually following one another, that sorta blows the "let it rest between planing sides" theory completely out of the water. :)
Just my tuppence ... I do what I do because it works for me in my shop environment, and in my climate. YMMV
--
www.e-woodshop.net
Last update: 11/30/07
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Yes, you will. IMO, you should re-think that plan.

Planers don't make too much dust (so a respirator isn't all that important), but they sure make a lot of chips, and they'll go *everywhere*. If you're planning to collect them as they're produced, with a hose connected to the shop vac, I think you'll be disappointed in the results, as the planer will produce shavings at a rate probably too fast for the shop vac to keep up. And if you're planning to just sweep up afterward... I think you'll be disappointed in the results there, too.

That's incorrect. You want to remove approximately the same amount from each side at the same time, so that each side of the board has approximately the same moisture content.

Not if you do it the right way (same amount off each side, at the same time).
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Doug Miller wrote:

Well, Once SWMBO sees the huge mess, maybe then I can justify a Dust collector. I love it when a plan comes together!
Without the planer I couldnt really justify a DC, So I bought the planer! Genius!
Andy
--
:: Clever Sig here ::

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Ahh, I see you're a step ahead of me. Sounds like a good plan.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.