heating shop

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We'll be moving next month and I'm going to wall off part of the garage for a shop. Still a small shop, but more than the 11x13 shed I have now.
A wood stove isn't an option because I don't generate enough scrap to keep one going and I don't want to either buy wood or go out and harvest it. Plus I have some safety concerns.
So I've been looking for heating and cooling options. A through the wall ductless heat pump looks like the best option, but I don't think I can afford one. A window AC/heat pump is more affordable, but I'd have to make a "window" for it. Finally, I could go with a direct vent gas heater and a separate AC, or just try to do with out AC - the garage will get heavily insulated.
I'd appreciate everyone's opinions or experiences with the above options or with any other option I may have overlooked. Thanks.
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On 10/30/2012 11:36 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

No experience whatsoever, but ...
I have had this one my Amazon "wish" list since last year (never got cold enough to justify the expense), mainly based on reviews and one recommendation from someone on G+:
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
I can easily run another 240v circuit, and I like the idea of electric over other types, but I would still want to run a usage estimate/calculation based on the specs to see what I could expect with regard to an increase in the electrical bill before leaping.
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Swingman wrote:

(Amazon.com product link shortened)
All you need to know are watts.
My shop is 20x25. I use one 1500 w 110v electric heater for it - and it is completely adequate - but the temp rarely falls below 50 degrees outside during the day.
One caveat, electric heater prices run all over the place with a low of about $15 (which is what I paid 15 years ago). Some have half power settings, all should have fans, probably a thermostat too. The caveat is that the wattage determines the amount of heat...two heaters with the same wattage may have wildly different prices but they put out the same amount of heat though they may differ in how it is distributed.
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dadiOH wrote:

Same here in middle GA. I have two 1500 w 110 v heaters. One cost $9 at Walgreen's, and one is all metal and cost about $15 at Walmart. The problem with these is the primitive thermostat. I try to keep the temp at 65-67 but even when the temp got to 72 one or other of the heaters would still come on for awhile.
Solved this problem this summer with a couple of thermostats designed for baseboard heaters. Wired them up to dedicated receptacles to plug the heaters in. They keep the temp within 1 degree all day long. My shop is well insulated so I keep the temperature the same round the clock. Some mornings I go out to the shop before daylight and it is always pleasant.
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*snip*
I suspect that what we think of as a thermostat on those things is a simple timer. They usually work good enough, but I've got to adjust one about 5 times a heating season.
Puckdropper
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There are times that I wish I had something like that in my shop. Just want to come out go to work and not have to build a fire. The things I did that help was put 2" of foam under 6" of concrete and once I get it heated up it stays pretty warm. Also insulated everything as much as possible. I'm in the Cascade foothills of Wa. so it can get pretty cold in the winter. I've got a Vermont Casting woodstove, and two 1500 KW floor heaters but that unit of yours would probably heat my 960 sq' in under 30 minutes. Normally I'd just go get it but now I have a girlfriend and "we" have a plan. Anyone need a 72 FJ40. I'm learning to clean up behind myself. She even expects me to finish putting drywall up in the living room.
Mike M
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On 10/30/2012 7:07 PM, Mike M wrote:

I can easily run another 240v circuit, and I like the idea of electric

I used a kerosene fired heater and then a kerosene fueled torpedo heater for a number of years before I installed an electrical heater very similar to the one you're considering. Same wattage, different brand. Works like a charm. The thermostat takes some getting used to as it doesn't set to a specific temp, just have to figure out what the number on "Their" stat means in relation to shop temp. No biggie. Insulated shop ~ 24' x 14' maintains a minimum temp of ~ 42 degrees from November through April. When I want to use the shop in the evening, I crank it up when I get home from work, go in the house and change clothes and walk out to a nice warm shop. Effect on the electric bill has been negligible. Certainly cheaper and more healthy, etc. than the kerosene routine.
Best thing was when I brought SWMBO out to see how nice it was in the shop in the middle of January (when I did the install) her comment was, "Great. Now where are you going to put the A/C?" She was serious.
Next stop a good buy on a used window AC unit and then out came the Sawz-all. Can't beat it!

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On 10/30/2012 7:07 PM, Mike M wrote:

It happens to the best of us ...
:)
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In wrote:

...
IMO, a kerosene Reddy Heater or similar is the best for heating a shop. I've used one for going on ten years now. Quick heat, cheaper than electricity, can buy thermostats to go with them, & move around easily. About the only fallbacks are making sure you don't pay road taxes on the kero and you have to have a couple of 5 gallon cans for the kero, but IMO again, that's no big deal. IIRC mine is a 25,000 BTU which is more than enough to heat my shop and with a box fan on the ceiling can push the heat out and include heat for the entire garage. YMMV of course, dependiing on cu. ft., etc..
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On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:36:57 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

I'd build a carport, instead. (In fact, I did just that.)

Insulate it really well and you won't need anything but the $79 window heater/A/C unit.
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On 10/30/2012 11:36 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

How cold are we talking about?
In Houston on cold days I use a 1500 watt 110 volt heater. I let it run about 30 minutes before I go out to work. The room does not get "warm" but the temperature is tolerable with out a coat and if pointed at where I am working quite adequate. Be sure to add weather stripping around your garage doors, cutting down on drafts is half the battle.
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On 10/30/2012 12:49 PM, Leon wrote:

My biggest concern has heretofore been not necessarily personal comfort (at least not yet, but that may be fast approaching), but keeping the project stock at a glue friendly temperature.
When I know that it is going to be below recommended chalk/glue-up temperatures, I keep my glue bottles, and sometimes the stock, in the office overnight ... AAMOF, I have done quite a few glue-ups on the kitchen island (much to Linda's dismay, although I don't know why the hell that would bother someone who doesn't cook?? <g>)
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On 10/30/2012 1:14 PM, Swingman wrote:

I have only had a problem with cold and gluing, you saw it in Oct 2009. I was laminating the veneers onto the bedroom bed posts.
Typically I nuke the glue bottle, I did not on that day, apparently.
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wrote:

That 1500 watt heater is putting out about 5100 BTU. Here in CT, when it gets below 25 - 30 degrees, my 30,000 BTU heater is not enough in a partially insulated garage. This year I'll have a 60K unit.
Propane does put moisture in the air, but I've never found it to be a problem here.
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On 10/30/2012 11:36 AM, Larry Blanchard wrote:

...
Don't say where so no idea of heat/cooling loads nor what you expect for a control range but...since it is (presumed) attached garage and (also presumed) central heat/air system, what about simply running ductwork to the shop area?
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On Tue, 30 Oct 2012 16:36:57 +0000 (UTC), Larry Blanchard

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?pD590&cat=1,43456,43465,44590
I have a couple of these over my workbench that I stand under and I keep plenty warm even if the temperature is in the 30's. I have them set so they can swivel and pivot over the table saw and workbench areas. Other areas in the shop just stay cold and I dress warm. Each must be on its own circuit.
I don't use them to keep everything warm enough for a glue up. They may do good enough, but I don't trust it. I have an adjacent utility room that I can heat for that if need be. I keep my glue and finishes in an insulated cabinet heated with a couple of 25 watt light bulbs when the temperature gets low.
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Larry Blanchard wrote:

Add to your list for consideration a Kerosene heater. Fairly inexpensive, easy and cheap to run, and portable.
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On 10/30/2012 3:01 PM, HeyBub wrote: ...

Not _that_ cheap any more--I just filled the can and from the bulk pump K-1 was $5.50+/gal.
Also have the problem for shop of they _do_ smell and the hotdog ones are terribly noisy in a small shop and if humidity is a problem they'll add to it. That said, I have one for the shop (albeit this is the farm shop _not_ woodworking and it will heat a garage space to toasty in a short time so you can cycle it...
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Just like propane if you don't have ventilation your just putting moisture into air.
Mike M
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On 10/30/2012 6:30 PM, Mike M wrote: ...

Is really independent of fuel type; it's the unvented combustion that's the culprit...
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