When is a digital/analogue phone not a digital/anaalogue phone?

[cpvh]

I am helping a friend to re-arrange his office and trying to avoid having to run extra CAT5 cables.

I have been looking at the Hellerman Coolport range of products

utilise unused pairs in the CAT5 cables to either.....

Get 2 Data down 1 cable run

or

3 Voice (Digital)

or

1 Data and 1 voice (Analogue)

Or

1 Data and 2 Voice (Digital).

So, to the question(s)

Firstly, are all digital phones created equal? Will even the ones with lots of buttons and LCD displays work with just 1 pair?

Secondly, Will an analogue fax machine which is being run off a PABX work with just 1 pair (4&5) or will it also need 1&2 (There is no R button, but it would be nice if it rang).

Also, another requirement is to "extend a bog standard BT analogue line from nearby the patch panel to nearby one of the CAT5 outlets. Can anyone give me catalogue details or point me to a good site where I can work out what is required at either end?

Thanks

[Owain]

Whether they require 1 or more pairs usually depends on the particular phone system rather than on the number of buttons. uk.telecom may be your friend here.

It depends on where the master socket for that PABX extension is. If you take 1 pair from the PABX over the Cat5 to the fax machine you can use a master adapter 'dongle' to provide the ringing capacitor. Downstream of the ringing capacitor you should use 2 pairs.

The dongle will also provide the RJ45 to BT phone socket conversion.

Again, depends on where the ringing capacitor is. Usually, hardwire 1 pair from the BT junction box or master socket to a spare socket on the patch panel, *mark it clearly as BT phone*, patch cable to the other socket on the patch panel, at the distant end use a ringing capacitor 'dongle' as above.

Owain

[john]

I think you might help your friend more if you put him in touch with someone that knows what they're doing. Good job he isn't in any hurry as it will take you a while to learn what you need and what to do - it's impossible to give you a step by step guide and look for products for you then suggest a solution. I doubt you would know where to start nd wouldn't be able to provide free ongoing technical support.

[Sparks]

It does depend on the phone and system, but modern stuff seems to only need

2 wires in my experiance. You need to have a look! The phone will usually have an RJ11 connector connecting the phone to the lead, have a look if this has 2 or 4 pins in it even if it has 4, it may only be using two - you will need to test it leaving only two connected (usually the middle pins)

You *may* need a master socket or a "PBX Master" adaptor at the fax end, but if it is a new machine, it will probably still ring - just have a look at it's cabe, if the RJ11 connector (the end of the cable that connects to the actial fax machine) has only two contacts, then it doesn't need this (and even if there are 4, it still may not, you need to test it to be sure) Here is a PBX Master adaptor for £2 from Inmac

example picture is here Also, another requirement is to "extend a bog standard BT analogue line

If the phone is the only thing connectin to this port, then just make up a lead with a BT type socket one end and an RJ45 connector the other - connect pins as follows

BT - RJ45

2 - 4 3 - 8 5 - 5

Then do the same the other end with a BT socket connected to an RJ45 plug using the same connections The easiest thing to do is buy a BT extension lead, chop it in half, then connect the RJ45 plugs to this

Remember, these Coolport boxes don't contain any electronic components at all, they are simply routing pairs of wire to pins in the sockets, so depending on how much these cost, it may be better to make them yourself if you can.

I have made them using short lengths of CAT5 cable, RJ45 plugs and some RJ45 couplers, it is really easy :)

I have successfully made

10/100 data + 10/100 data 10/100 data + 1 digital phone and 1 analogue fax 4 phones (analogue & digital)

Sparks...

[cpvh]

Thanks for crediting me with a little intelligence Saprks (No more than i'd expect of you).

As it happens, I also "invented" these things. I wired 2 cables with RJ45 on the ends to a single RJ45. Mine were for seial data though (Decserver 700 anyone?)

I am begining to suspect that I am not dealing with Digital handsets, but VOIP handsets which will make the job both simpler and more complex! At least I know exactly where I am with Ethernet Port Economisers/Doublers.

For the benefit of anyone who comes googling after, I did find an off the shelf product to feed a standard (2 Pair) BT analogue phone signal down a CAT5 line, it comes as a kit (2 cables) and is a bit pricey at =A320ish

catalogue number 4134).

Videk's catalogue makes a good reference catalogue, but they can be a bit on the dear side, though like RS most of the stuff they stock is good and the service is excellent.

/babble over.

[Sparks]

wrote

Not sure if that was a real thanks, or sarcasm!?!

Sparks...

[cpvh]

It was real, I was aware it could be taken as sarcasm, but hoped the tone of the rest of the message would have conveyed my good intent.

Your reply to my original message was much more useful than the messsage whose subliminal message seemed to be "if you aren't a "Telecom CORGI" then back off and allow them through.

Then again, perhaps I misinterpreted that post, again it could be read either way.

I did also re-post a slightly modifed version of the original post in uk.telecom, but only got one reply from someone who was undoubtedly very knowledegable, but seemed to have got the wrong idea of what I was trying to do and appeared to have missed some info that I thought was fairly obvious in my post.

Oh well, the wonders of modern communication.

Thanks again Sparks.

[Sparks]

:-) Glad to hear it! It is difficult to convey a tone of voice through text, and I wasn't quite sure!

Sparks...