What paperwork should I expect from a Prat P self certifying electrician ?

[Ian_m]

We had new 32A oven/microwave radial and under unit lighting fitted during out kitchen refit by a Prat P self certifying kitchen fitter. What paperwork should he have left us ? (we have nothing, he said we need nothing) and do the local council BCO need to know about he was self certifying ?

(note to kitchen fitters who think they are competant electricians just cos' they have done the Prat P course.... generally appliances work better and don't produce an error message of "low voltage" on their displays if you tighten the screws up on the 45A isolators you fitted in the wall....oh and the same applies to the dishwasher, you forgot to tighten the screws pushing in the conductor into the hole doesn't really do it...oh and thankyou for filling my appliance isolating switches with plaster so that when I turned off the dishwasher to correct the first problem I was unable to turn is back on due to plaster covering the contacts in the switch, the buzzing sound gave that one away.......)

[Tim S]

I would report him to his professional body - if you don't know who that is, start with the NICEIC, ring them up and ask if they have a Mr on their members list, then take it from there.

You might be doing his other customers a favour if the NICEIC (or whoever) send an inspector out to check on a few of his other jobs.

Cheers

Tim

[Stuart Noble]

kitchen I worked on but he never got paid the final £200 either (which I thought was a fair swap). He is an approved NICEIC contractor, and what he was paid was done by cheque so I figure that should be proof enough. At one point he managed to drill through his own cable, exclaiming "Who put that there?". It certainly pays to get the professionals in.

[Ed Sirett]

You should get a certificate of compliance from the P-Prat's guild (mine's CORGI). It might come directly or indirectly via your local authority. This assumes that the Prat has submitted a notification, of course. Yeah, right, surely that got done?

Since there are quite a few of the guilds that register would be electricians it might be quite hard to find out which one of them it is. Perhaps it would be better to have noted this down from the P-Prats's ID card which you examine before they even quote for the work.

I have always thought the excessive reliance on testing and paperwork was an unnecessary and ineffective mechanism for improving the quality of work. However even the most basic functional testing would have shown up these faults.

[Ian_m]

Not necessarily during quick testing.

The combined microwave/oven only faulted when the other main oven was on as well (I had visions of the 32A cable not being enough, a quick check revealed oven 16A and microwave/oven on 12A plug) and the dishwasher issue showed when the heater came on during the wash.

[Ian_m]

Sorry 13A plug (dohhhhh).

[Ian_m]

The fitted kitchen was supplied by a well know high street store (which is always in the top 5 for customer service and satisfaction) who employ independant fitters to install their kitchens.

I think where it is falling down is the fitter said they send a list of what they have done and where (electrically Prat P wise) to their hirer (the store) not the homeowner and their hirer should inform the BCO of work done.

The store says no the fitters must supply the correct paper work for the work they undertake.

The thing that started this posting was we asked the store for Prat P paperwork and they have got back to us asking what we should be expecting.

This kitchen was fitted in May 2006.....

I have a feeling this will run and run... Local BCO say just send us the relevant paperwork once received, BCO can supply a tester to give you Prat P for £325 or do what other people do, let us inspect foundations, RSJ's etc what we are good at...(actually he didn't say the last bit but he did admit they are not qualified for anything Prat P and have to just follow what the law says even if they don't agree with it...).

[Clive Dive]

If it was NICEIC then the following 'should' happen;

Job is done, tested and an Electrical Installation Certificate left on site with / sent to the client. This details the work that was done and the relevant test results for that work. Contractor retains the yellow copy. NICEIC are contacted via their 'web portal' and the Approved Domestic Installer / Contractor enters details of the address, work done and the area in which the work was done [these are so general it is a joke, anyway...] NICEIC then inform BCO and a Certificate is sent to the clientby NICEIC It is better to print the confirmation page and keep one copy and give the customer a copy as the paperwork was taking upto 6 months to arrive. HTH

[ARWadsworth]

If this problem cannot be sorted between the customer and the elecrician then it would be straight to trading standards. I would expect a customer to report me to trading standards if I did such a job.

And they will check his other jobs only if he keeps records.

Adam

[cynic]

If the new radial was run from the consumer unit then it would count as a material change and you should receive an installation certificate complete with attached schedule of inspections and a schedule of tests. At the very least you should expect a minor works certificate.

A lot of the kitchen fitting crew are members of CORGIs electrical scheme. You could phone them to check. Other possible guilds are NICEIC, NAPIT, ELECSA, OR OFTEC. At present there aren't any other bodies who can self certify

Its all a load of bollox and should be abandoned.

[John]

[Ben Blaukopf]

If a new circuit doesn't need an installation cert, what does?? I suppose if sparky gives you a minor works, then at least you've got your paper trail...

Ben

[Ed Sirett]

we need to draw a distinction here between certificates.

Firstly those that any electrician might or might not give to state what they have done and the results of what tests they performed. These would be minor works certificates or inspect & test certificates.

Secondly those that come from the guild of the self-certifying P-Prat. This latter are the supposed fabled documents without which "you cannot sell your house".

[Stuart Noble]

The whole thing is just too silly to think about, let alone abide by

[Ian_m]

Well my mate sold his mother in laws house without a Prat P for the work in the kitchen (new appliances wired in, might have been done by a neighbour). Buyers solicitor asked for it (actually you have to declare that work had been done in the "sellers pack") my mate hadn't got one but would get one at buyers expense (£225 I think), buyer declined as he was going to competely redo the house. Solicitors didn't seem at all worried about missing paperwork.

Buyer was more worried about the asbestos found in the Artex that silly old Prat P certificates.....

[Lurch]

On Wed, 21 Feb 2007 15:27:17 -0000, "Ian_m" mused:

If the fitter is employed by the store to d the work then the store gets the paperwork as they are the customer. It's up to the store to sort a copy out for the cusotmer.